Dear Slickag: Im sorry but, I have to disagree with you. Not for one second do I believe that such an order was ever given to U-boat crews.

The crew of U 181 showed much kindness to my grandfather and members of his crew. U 181 could have blown them out of the water with their deck guns, as easy as lifting a finger.

The Kriegsmarine was probably the most honorable of German services with certain units as an exception. I do not believe that any U-boat crew would stoop down to that level. U 571 had a scene in which the U-boat Commander orders his man to open fire--that is Hollywood bunkem and bosh.

There is an unconfirmed rumor that a U-boat commander did if fact fire on some survivors in a lifeboat, to which he was supposedly executed for by the Kriegsmarine High Command. I have never heard nor seen any proof that such an order was ever given.

On September 17-18th 2000, I had the great pleasure of meeting most of the surviving members of the U-boat (U 181) crew that fired torpedoes at my grandfathers ship. Just yesterday as a matter of fact, I recieved a 3 page letter in the mail from the Merchant Marine Vets historian for the North Atlantic Chapter.

In this letter, it states several facts that completely correspond with what the U 181 vets told me, plus with what my grandfather had written. Unfortunately, the U 181 could not see everything that happened because this was late in the evening appx after 8:00 pm. They surfaced and some several hundreds of yards from the SS Fort Lee, and the weather was going from bad to worse.

Unfortunately, the first torpedo hit the ship on the port side of the fireroon demolishing that area of the ship. In this explosion, 6 crew members and 3 Navy armed escourts were killed in the explosion. The U 181 surfaced and manned their deck guns for possible action (they had to for their safety).

They obseved lifeboats in the water and about 25 minutes after the first torpedo was fired, and after they gave water-food-blankets and even a gun-to my grandfathers crew, they manovered and fired a second torpedo. As it was at night and in stormy waters, it was impossible for them to know that two lifeboats were being lowered on that side of the ship-there was no lights as the first torpedo destroyed the engines and all power ceased.

Lifeboats #3 and #5 were being lowered at the moment the second torpedo struck, killing all on those boats. The U 181 crew then and now are not aware that that happened. Had they seen that there were lifeboats still being lowered, not for one split second, do I believe that the U 181 crew would have fired that second torpedo had they been able to see the boats being lowered. I will be notifying Herr Kaiser by email today, and he will tell the rest of U 181s crew this new information.

The Kriegsmarine had no place for Nazis--especially in U-boats. I wish you would believe me on this, I can only tell you what I have learned and what I am told.

My grandfather was from norway and he-being a Captain of an Allied ship being form an occupied country, was at greater risk of harm than the ordinary sea Captain would be. The reason is because the Axis might look at them as "traitors" just because they were Europeans.

Now I think where all this order to kill survivors might have come from was, that at sometime--someone somewhere being from a country that was occupied by the Germans, might have mentioned this fear of being shot because of where he came from.

I do not believe that such an order has ever existed. Read Marts posting--it proves that all Germans were not murderers, as I hope my posting also does.

Soon there will be much info on this once I can get all my info together and give it to Otto. I also only hope that you do not feel that all Germans are evil disregarding what branch they served in.

I happen to know and be friends with at least 40 former members of the Kriegsmarine, and some from the Waffen SS. I know it was U 181s duty to fire those torpedoes--these men only did their jobs. They stuck their necks in the noose to help my grandfather and his crew.

If you wish, I can send you some vets addresses and you can contact these men and see for yourself that they are just like out vets, only fought on different sides and speak a different language.

I dont hate Germans, but I do not like their some of their leaders and their insane policies. I know that you arent disputing what I say but, the truth has to be known.

Now, there was a komissar order issued I think to the Einsatzkommando units but never to the the Heer, the Luftwaffe or the Kriegsmarine. The war on the Eastern Front was much differant than the Western Front war. Both sides were ruthlessly barbaric at times but, what might surprise you is that the Russians and Germans had much respect for each other. When I visited with the Kriegsmarine and Waffen SS vets, I was surprised to hear what they actually thought of their war-time foe.

At the reunion in bad Camberg, the U 181 crew, my friend Susanne and I, all bowed our heads in prayer for the men who were lost at war, and in peacetime. Most recent at that time was the mourning for the Crew of the Soviet Sub the Kursk. 118 men died for nothing, that is a great tragedy. The Germans look at all Submariners from all nations as their brothers--this I am convinced of, and also saw proof of while visiting the U 995, the German Marine Memorial in Laboe, and the U-boat Memorial in Moltenort.

ALL I do know is that you have to see it first hand as I did, and you will feel as I do. I will be glad to tell you my complete story of my month in Germany at these places and with the vets if you wish.

Sorry to ramble on but, I hope you see my point. Take care--Carl.

[This message has been edited by C.Evans (edited 15 March 2001).]