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Old August 11th, 2002, 11:10 AM
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Kai-PetriOKF Moderator Kai-Petri is offline
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Here´s some facts I found this morning in the net. First on the panthers:

Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf D(D1), along with Panzerjäger Tiger(P) Ferdinand (Sd.Kfz.184) and other new armored fighting vehicles, made their debut with Panzer Abteilungen 51 and 52 (96 tanks each) along with Panzer Regiment Stab 39 (8 tanks each) as part of Heeresgruppe Sued (Army Group South) in July 1943 during Operation Citadel in the Kursk salient. Because of technical problems (especially with the gearbox, transmission and suspension, and engine fires) that were not fully solved until later, many Panthers broke down before and during the battle.

"...they (Panthers) burnt too easily, the fuel and oil systems were insufficiently protected, and the crews were lost due to lack of training." - Heinz Guderian.


From the original 250 Panthers, only 43 were in service by August 10, 1943.

The new tanks had turned out a very disappointing show with most of the Mk V Panthers breaking down on the first day due to problems with the complex electrical cooling systems (from a total of 200 only forty were in running order at the end of the first day). The Elefant tanks although a formidable machine with their 88mm gun had also proved a disappointment with Russian infantry simply attacking the 73 ton monsters with satchel charges and Molotov cocktails when they were separated from the infantry with relative ease due to the absence of a hull machine gun as a secondary defence.


There were Tigers in the northern sector:

Schwere Panzer Abteilung 505 - sPzAbt 505

The 505th was the last independent battalion created with the old organization of 20 Tigers and 25 PzKpfw III. Formed in February 1943, the 505th received several Tigers and the rest in March with 25 Pzkpfw IIIs. The unit was loaded on rail cars on 29/30 April 1943 and sent to Heeres Gruppe Mitte on the Eastern Front, where it was ordered to upgrade to the new organization, and received 11 Tigers that were shipped from the ordnance depot between 8 and 10 June 1943. It took part in OPERATION CITADEL as part of Feldmarschall Model's 9th Armee. At the start of the Kursk offensive on 5 July 1943, the unit had 31 Tigers and was joined on 9 July 1943 by 3.Kompanie which was formed in April and received Tigers in June. The 505th lost only four Tigers during the Kursk offensive but lost a further six by the end of July 1943.

To check all the Tiger tank losses visit this site!

http://members.tripod.com/~Sturmvogel/tigerlosses.html

On the subject of knowing the precise time of attack this might help us:

On the night of the 3rd July German Army sappers cleared and taped paths through some of the minefields, an extremely dangerous business as the ground was full of metal and the readings on detectors went into a frenzy. This meant that the mines had to be prodded with a bayonet and lifted out and made safe by hand. Testimony to the expertise of the Großdeutschland engineers was the fact that ten men of the 2nd Engineer Company on the night of the 3rd July lifted and made safe a total of 2,700 mines which worked out at a rate of a mine a minute by each man! On the same night the Red Army captured a sapper of the 6th Infantry Division-Private Fermello after a skirmish, who informed the Soviets of the start time of the offensive which was to be at 3am on 5th July. In the Belgorod sector a Slovene sapper deserted and told the Soviets of the date and start time of the offensive confirming what they already knew.
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