Posted by Heartland:
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Out of curiosity, could you define the how far forward the centres of a "traditional defence line" would be, and throw in Soviet positioning at the time? Oh, and perhaps what Soviet doctrine called for at the time, for good measure.
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A traditional defensive line would have command/supply situated to the rear, as to anticipate retreat/withdrawl.
Posted by Heartland:
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I always thought this quite funny. I don't know about you, but preparing for an offensive by locking all my ammunition into dumps and sending large portions of the army on leave is pretty crap way of preparing to invade someone. In addition, building up a strong second echelon where a large portion of the troops are comitted, halfway to Moscow, can hardly be construed as an offensive move in my mind.
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If you read earlier on the thread, I mentioned the possible begining of a Soviet offensive no earlier than 1942. If its a year before expected action, then I would certainly be surprised by an invading army. As to the troops in the rear, interesting point. I have heard a little about that, but I will check further into it.
Posted by AndyW:
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As for the military doctrine: The Soviet Army was placed along the border according to the operational plans in place. This plan was the Sept. 18, 1940-plan with changes made on Oct. 5, 1940 and May 1941. Zhukovs memo asking for a pre-emtive strike dated May 15, 1941 was dismissed by Stalin. On a tactical level, the Army handbook PU-37 with certain updates was still valid.
Soviet doctrine called that in a case of enemy aggression, the enemy had to be stopped very close at the Soviet border, then fought back and beaten on his own soil.
Nice plan, failed miserably in June 1941.
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I am sure Stalin would reject a plan calling for a 1941 invasion of Germany...the Red Army wasnt ready for such an operation in
1941
The Soviet doctrine did call for the enemy to be stopped at their border. What better way to plan for an offense than to have your defense already set!
Posted by AndyW:
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As for Soviet political plans and initatives to invade Germany either in 1941, 1942 or later: zero evidence, but feel free to post some to support your "preventive war"-thesis. Deploying troops on along the border isn't really a proof.
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I never said i had concrete evidence that there was going to be a war. I said it was very likely given the circumstances surrounding World War 2, and that Soviet deployment on the Soviet border, and tension between the two powers, not to mention ideological differences, led to a climate very inducive of war.