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Originally Posted by von_noobie
Ok, true there were only the possibility of 2 carriers been sunk at Hawii, But it is a what if so lets stick with the 5 carriers of this topic.
Midway - Yes it had a powerful air group, But didnt it take a masive beating in the opening Japanese air strike on the Island, So that air group wouldnt help at all, The planes were destroyed or damaged on the ground, and the yanks got real busy running around removing bombs and munitions to prevent secondary explosions. The Japanese invasion force my take severe infantry casualties (MAY) but they still had to do there shore bombardment, who knows what effect that could have on the defending Infantry.
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In the historical battle, most of the Island's defensive fighters were Marine F2A Buffalos. The USN had no fighter units present, these being on the carriers. The F2As were initially successful as their fighter controllers used radar to allow them to bounce the first incoming wave. The Japanese lost a number of dive bombers and special attack planes in the Marine's first pass. After that, the Marines were hammered by the escort.
The Japanese bombing was marginally effective. It destroyed few aircraft and did not render the airfield inoperable. The Japanese strike commanders recommended a second strike (hence the land bombs / torpedo issue).
With no carriers, the US could have brought in several squadrons of F4F fighters manned by Navy pilots. If the US put up say, just 20 F4F (less than two carriers at Santa Cruz or Eastern Solomons) they would have likely shot down 50 to 70% of the strike leaving the Japanese in a real dilemmia.
Now, the
Kido Butai is facing a "Coral Sea" situation. They can launch a second strike and likely suffer more heavy losses (a likely course of action) but then have little left to support the landings or, they can close on Midway and try and cover the landings themselves.
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Originally Posted by von_noobie
Simply, The Americans could not hold midway with out here carriers, The Japanese force simply would have over powered them.
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The Japanese were planning on landing a reinforced regiment initially. It would have been slaughtered in the attempt. A second wave might have been attempted but it too almost certainly would have failed. The problem at Midway is with or without carriers the Japanese were attempting to land an inadequite force with inadequite support in an inadequite manner using inadequite equipment.
One need only look at other opposed Japanese landings early in WW 2 to see the truth in this.
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Originally Posted by von_noobie
Guadacanal - Ok, If the Americans destroyed the Japanese carriers at Midway then of course the Americans would win at Guadacanal, How ever, In this scenario the Japanese carriers were not able to be destroyed and as such would have been able to provide a security force until the air field was built up aswell as the Island defences.
Simply, Carriers provide defence until Guadacanal fully operational, Nothing the yanks can do about it any time soon.
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The Japanese have no way to keep their carriers on station off Guadalcanal. The best one can give them is that when the US shows up and lands they put their carriers to sea to attack the US landing force. Given the original conditions, the US is going to get ashore in huge numbers. Once that happens all they have to do is keep the airfield operational and the Japanese eventually lose. The US can fly in aircraft via Espiritu Santo as available. If the USAAF makes even just a bit more effort to put P-38s there the Japanese are finished.
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Originally Posted by von_noobie
As for the Americans being able to put damaged or sunked carriers back into use, Possibly depending on there condiction, How ever, A ship, flooded, Hit numerous times by bombs and torpedos, As well as being flooded, Would take a long time to put back into action.
First they have to be refloated, then they have to basically rip the gutts out of them becouse its all been stuffed by water, As well as new flight decks, crew replacements and hull repair, This all assuming it structerly sound would take upto a year to complete, Minimum of 8 months. they would not make it to Midway And would be lucky to even have the possibilty of making Guadacanal.
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Not necessarily. The worst case large vessels, battleships, at Pearl took about two years to raise and refirbish. Cruisers, similiar to carriers in complexity, took less than six months. The
Helena is a good example. She fought in the Guadalcanal campaign after being torpedoed at Pearl.