Hmmm...on the Tirpitz, I may have to disagree that she was a useless because she wasn't involved in real engagements and that she spent more time running. By just existing, the British considered her a threat and she is a threat. Planners are forced to often the potential threat the Tirpitz poised and allocate assets just in case this German threat show up. This would, in effect, divert assets needed elsewhere. Even if Tirpitz was a more of a haunting ghost, as a ghost she was still able to keep the British wary if not exactly fearful.
Still, I agree that the Tirpitz and her sister the Bismarck were beautiful ships to behold.

And the limeys, canucks, frogs, russkies, aussies, etc, etc.

Yes, it would change the war just like its sister-ship the Bismark did.

The Soviets would reroute their troops a few miles south and that would be it. Naval Ground Fire Support is only important within a very short range, strictly coastal indeed, if you can provide fire control. Over a dune you're firing blind.

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my point Za is that Soviet ground forces did not do as you say, they went full ahead to capture important points of communique, crossroads, buildings and of course any and all German troops as much as possible, no matter what the cost was in human lives. Ship fire was radio'ed in and I have a good story of one such incident from a former KM friend that I have shared in the past; or it was air controlled, the Tirpitz would of just been another piece of needed mobil artillery and it would of been most effective.

yes seems like a waste for such a grand Schiff but should of it stayed all holed up in some protected bay whimpering and not exposing itself ?

Sure Erich, I'm not arguing with you for arguing's sake, but you will recognise that naval support is good for half a dozen miles inland and amyway you need to have VERY good fire control or else it will be only unobserved fire by map coordinates.

Nevertheless, yes, There was German naval gunfire support at Koenigsberg, and Rokossovsky's 2nd Bielorussian Front did have trouble as it fought along the Baltic coast as flankguard to Zhukov's 1st Biel. Fr. going to Berlin, struggling to take the West Prussian and Pomeranian ports.

The problem with fire control is that normally you have an observer attached to an artillery unit, of whatever size, battery, battalion or even above. This observer must have a wire or radio link to the firing unit or to the command level to which that firing unit belongs to so signal can then be relayed downwards. In other words we are speaking of infantry networks, and communications can flow from the observer to his own unit, or to the divisional Arko (div. artillery commander) who will then relay commands to his units controlling his gun lines to fire according to that observer's commands (although this is more the American or Brit model...)

Now having an observer controlling fire from ships, using different firing procedures, communication networks, frequencies etc is not an easy thing, you will have some trouble having a landlubber artillery FAO lootenant controlling naval 150mm or 280mm fire to break up a battalion-sized attack, something your own divisional artillery ought to be up to. You need more 'gut' to be able to do this.

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I agree wholehearteldy Za, reason why I did add that Fire Support from the air if a possibility was probably the most accurate, the Ar 196's were used in this fashion and because of it a couple of them during late 44-45 were shot down by Soviet fighters.

my conclusion for the Tirpitz in the role should of been sent to do, a rare pic from the See-krieg Chronik seite, the Prinz Eugen letting go a salvo with another Zerstörer (unknown) behind her letting off her heavy guns in support of the German truppen during 1944

Great photo, Erich, thanks Ah, but you have hit the nail in the head, Ar 196! Now if these were available you would already have your Naval Artillery Observer aboard, with no communication problems bar the normal occasional glitch, no complicated and failure-prone comms interfaces.

My only problem (which you addressed) is that these aerial observers would be at extreme risk, flying those slow floaplanes in a very hostile environment.

I may not like their ultimate cause (if any of these people cared for that any longer, I suppose not) but that they were all very brave and tough fighters, not a shade of doubt. They have my utmost respect, Erich.

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they were insane plain and simple knowing full well that Soviet fighters and even ground based Flak could pummel them anytime.

back to my friends story it was off the coast of Finland on one of the isle Oesel possibly that my KM friend and his Leutnant were atop a building or maybe a grass covered hut in a prime observer location and called in ship suuport from the Prinz Eugen and 2 Destroyers to fire on a Soviet Batterie and troop crossing point ahead of them. Well they were not at all ready for what was to come. the shelling nearly made them deaf-dumb as they were really to close to the action the shore batterie was obliterated the crossing point was no-more. The Leutnant was presented with the EK I, funny my friend was the one that called in the support and directed the salvo's.

Most probably we would somehow relate to this from our readings of the Allied shore bombardments of German defense positions at Normandie though the shelling was of much grander scale.

quick one on the foto presented, a good chance the ship in which the foto was taken may have served as a protective Flak shield as during the summer-fall of 44 many of the ships had the new "Barbara" Flak gun refit of updated 2cm flakvierlings, 2cm Zwillings even 3.7 Zwillings and some single barrel 4cm bofors

E ~

Tahnk you again Erich, I find these experience reports extremely interesting! It must be a thrill being able to speak with these vets!!!

That's what was in my mind. It sure took steel balls!

Ah, that's what I wanted to read! So I presume that being KM they were already in the Naval Gunfire Support comms network. If they were Army I shudder at thinking how high a level they had to go to be able to request and observe fires.

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it's an honour for a fact Za to meet with the few living and been through it.

Otto still has problems with some slight deafness most to Soviet artillery during his time in the Baltic, am still trying to find how he got from being a gunner on a 8.8cm Flak at Kiel to radar schule in Danzig to a marine-land abteilung and to Finland and the Baltic-Danzig and Hela Bay. during his time on land a person could just call them regular soldiers like the Heer landser as they were performing the same function if I recall this correctly though he may have stayed with a KM Flak unit while in service, I need to touch base with him again to confirm. They must have been given a radio dispatch early on to co-ordinate if need be to the heavy and lighter ships as he recalls calling in fire-support at least 6 different times as the Soviets pushed ever further along the coast line through East-Prussia. Very common to note I have his book in which there are 4 fotos of him in blue and field grey uniform, the last one of him during his wedding ceremony with a EK2 dangling out of his tunic, because of the intense and heavy close-combat at the front he looks at least another 25 years older due to the strain