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Atlantic Naval Conflict U-boats, merchant convoys, the Hood, the Bismark, Huff-Duff and ASDIC

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Old July 21st, 2008, 03:42 PM
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Default The Fw 200

Just how effective was this plane in Naval combat? Personally i like the big aircraft but how effective was it?
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Old July 21st, 2008, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

It could have been very effective if the German Navy and German Air Force co-operated to some degree but they did not.
Also the aircraft started as an airliner and then converted to a bomber and was not stressed enough to carry the heaver loads and you can see many pictures of them with broken backs toward the rear of the aircraft.
For attacking shipping, it did very well and had decent range. I have not read much on how well it did on the eastern front.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

"The answer was the Fw 200C, with some modest structural reinforcements, improved cowlings containing 850hp BMW 132H-1 engines with three-bladed propellers, and bomb crutches on the wings. A longer ventral gondola, with a bomb bay, was planned but not fitted to the first production aircraft. When fitted, the gondola, which was offset to starboard, housed a 20mm MG FF cannon in front and a 7.9mm MG 15 machine gun aft. Another MG 15 was in a position above and behind the cockpit, and one in a dorsal position. The bomb capacity was 250kg in the gondola, two 250kg bombs under the outboard engine nacelles, and two more under the outer wing panels. The aircraft had a five-man crew. The Fw 200s were delivered to Kampfgruppe 40, which from June 1940 operated from Bordeaux-Merignac. Systematic anti-shipping operations began in August. Flights lead over the Bay of Biscay, around Ireland, and ended in Norway. The sinking of 90,000 tons of shipping was claimed in the first two months, and 363,000 tons by February 1941. Churchill called it the "Scourge of the Atlantic".

An Fw 200C-1

But the Fw 200C-1 made itself very unpopular by breaking its back on landings. At least eight Fw 200Cs were lost when the fuselage broke, just aft of the wing. Obviously, the strength of the airframe was insufficient to cope with the additional weight and stress. The Fw 200C was always an improvised combat aircraft, with many deficiencies. The crews also complained about inadequate armament and an vulnerable fuel system.
The Fw 200C-3 introduced some more reinforcements, although still insufficient, a gun turret to replace the fairing above the cockpit, two beam guns, an increase in bomb load, and an additional crew member. It also had 1200hp BMW 323-R2 engines to compensate for the weight increase. Soon a number of variations in armament appeared, as the MG FF and MG 15 were replaced by far more powerful 15mm and 20mm MG 151 cannon, or the 13mm MG 131. With these changes, the later Condors were very well armed.
For offensive purposes the Fw 200C was equipped with the low-altitude Revi bombsight, or the Lofte 7D sight for attacks from between 3500m and 4000m. Radar appeared, on the Fw 200C-4, in the form of Rostock or Hohentwiel anti-shipping radars. These modifications increased the weight and reduced the speed. the max level speed of the Fw 200C-4 was a very unimpressive 330km/h at 4800m, down to 280km/h at sea level. The speed of 450km/h was not be exceeded, and brusque evasive manoeuvres could results in structural failures. Endurance was 14 hours, for a range of about 3860km, or 18 hours if additional fuel tanks were carried instead of bombs, and cruising speeds were around 250km/h. The common bomb load on long-range missions was just four 250kg bombs.
In mid-1941 a change of tactics occurred. The Fw 200 crews were now instructed not to attack, and to evade all combat unless unavoidable. The Condors were used to report allied shipping movements. To guide the U-boats to the convoys they shadowed they transmitted direction finding signal, but they did not directly communicate with the submarines. This was a more effective use of the available numbers, and it also helped to conserve the aircraft: Production was low, and some Fw 200s were diverted to other roles, notably VIP transports. But worse was to come. On 20 September 1941 a Condor was lost when it attacked a convoy escorted by HMS Audacity, the first escort carrier. During the second voyage of the carrier, four Condors were shot down. Although the Audacity was primitive, and soon sunk by U-751, it announced the beginning of the end. The vulnerable Condor was increasingly confronted by enemy fighters, based on catapult-equipped merchant ships (CAM ships), merchant ships with small flight decks (MAC ships), or small escort carriers. In 1943 the Condors were recalled to be used as transports on the Eastern front, during the Battle of Stalingrad. They later returned to the Atlantic coast, but only a few continued to serve as maritime reconnaissance aircraft. In this role, the Condor was now being replaced by the Ju 290. The Fw 200s returned to anti-shipping strikes. For this purpose, the Fw 200C-6 and C-8 were equipped with the Henschel Hs 293A anti-ship missile, but the type's career was clearly over. The Condor served until the end of the war, but mainly as a transport aircraft.
Production ceased in early 1944, after the Luftwaffe had received 263 out of a total production of 276. "

uboat.net - Technical pages
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

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Originally Posted by german mauser k98k man View Post
Just how effective was this plane in Naval combat? Personally i like the big aircraft but how effective was it?
As an anti-shipping strike aircraft, the Condor was marginally adequate but was not as effective as a purpose designed aircraft could have been.

It is always somewhat suspect to compare the performance of aircraft in different theaters of war, but the Allied B-24, B-25, and PBY all turned in significantly better performances in the Pacific. One PBY squadron, for example sank over 100,000 tons of Japanese shipping, including warships, in one month in the Philippines.
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

may I recommend the excellent soft-back volumes by Classic Publications called 'Sea Eagles' by Chris Goss. Well worth the purchase if you would like to follow the operations of the Kondor

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Old July 23rd, 2008, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

Something discussed earlier as well:

Interesting info on battle of the Atlantic
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

It was very fragile. Broke apart in landing numerous times.
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

another work if your German is good is Sönke Neitzel's " Der Einsatz der Deutschen Luftwaffe über dem Atlantik und der Nordsee 39-45 "

some very interesting disposition maps showing convoys, claims, U-boot placements and routes of LW a/c such as the Fw 200Kondor..... going into 1944.

The appendices for each chapter are incredibly thorough and some interesting photos to accompany the fine researched text.
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

forgot, another item off the shelf is Ken Poolmans " Scourge of the Atlantic " this is in English covering the war against the Fw 200 from the Allied convoys, an older title that could use some updating but still a fine read.

1978 from, MacDonald/Jane's publishers Limited. ISBN # 0 354 01164 2
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Old July 24th, 2008, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

YouTube - Focke Wulf FW200 Condor anti-shipping bomber in action

YouTube - Condor inflight Movie
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Old July 27th, 2008, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

German Condor Bomber - Captured Fim Titled "Long Range Bomber Over the Atlantic"


The German Focke-Wulf Condor is featured in this sub-titled film which documents an eight hour mission and a bombing attack on British ships in the North Atlantic.

German Condor Bomber - Captured Fim Titled Long Range Bomber Over the Atlantic
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Old July 27th, 2008, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

The Fw 200 converted to maritime patrol made as much sense as converting the C-54.

Or the Lockheed Electra, for that matter
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Old July 27th, 2008, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

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Originally Posted by Za Rodinu View Post
The Fw 200 converted to maritime patrol made as much sense as converting the C-54.

Or the Lockheed Electra, for that matter
Probably less sense. See Lockheed Hudson site.

Lockheed Hudson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old July 27th, 2008, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

Funny coincidence, I was thinking rather of the Lockheed L-188 Electra, from which was derived a more than viable maritime patrol aircraft, not the Lockheed Model 14 Super Electra
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Old July 27th, 2008, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: The Fw 200

You can also add the DeHavilland Comet airliner to the maritime conversion list plus the Russians also converted a turbo-prop airliner to a maritime use but I don't have my book in front of me. Of course none are WWII era aircraft.

Also after the war the British tried to convert bombers to airliners but that too was a flop. I think the Boeing 377 airliner had alot in common with the B-29 as far as wings and engines.
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