A different subject Sapper, this is something we are dicussing in another thread and perhaps you could answer it since you were there

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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

A simple answer..The grass is always greener!
When it came to fighting ability. The British with their "Dogged" determination are just about as good as it gets. Anywhere! Seriously!

The Germans were never completely mechanised, and nowhere near it! They depended to a huge extent on mules and horse drawn transport. Mechanised? Must be joking...The Panther was about the equivalent of the Sherman. Our artillery was held in great awe by the Germans. The Germans did actually think we had "Belt fed 25 pounders, and one wanted to see the "wonder gun" before he was packed off to the Cage!
Though for a single gun the 88mm was a true winner.

Our Bren was a wonder weapon. Our Sten was crap. Our grenades were far superior. Our rifles as good as it gets. The Tiger was a hand full. But broke down regularly. Our Spits and Hurricanes were as good as it gets, until the later USA fighters came on the scene.

The multiple mortar "Moaning minnie" Though dangerous was more noise...

Our food? So far ahead of the Germans ...We got cut off on the Market garden and had to live on captured German rations....Bloody awful.......
The fallacy of German superiority is often assisted by the British soldier, who moans and groans and complains......

If anyone thinks that the Germans were "Mechanised" They should have seen the carnage of the Falaise pocket.For that reveals the true nature of the German back up supplies..... MULES HORSES AND CARTS! hundreds of them IF I was asked to give an "Overall picture of who had the best weapons? I have to say the Allies.

WE had special artillery barrage's came with their own names Like Pepper pot!
But the best of all was a barrage so huge ...That was named "Pandemonium" But it had to have special Government Cabinet permission, as the weight affected the nations money reserves!.

That reminds me. Near Overloon, we could hear the horse clip clopping, bring up German rations. Same time..So they waited, and at the right time took him out, so they lost their grub!
NO mate, never believe theirs was better. Some were but on the whole? Allied every time.
Cheers
Sapper

But why does everyone else think that as well mate?

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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

Poor literature I'd say.

Much of the popular literature puts the square jawed tommy/GI up against the panzergrenadiere from the Waffen SS, and all german tanks are Tigers.

It makes for more drama, and clearly reflect the fact that the author has never set foot in a combat zone. You don't need a tiger tank to scare you, another man who is just as scared as yourself will do the trick.

Sverre 'Jimmy' Bratland who was a platoon leader in the 4th KSLI/ 159bde 11th Armd div. Frequently tell about the enormous effect of the Royal Artillery. The level of coordination between Tank and Infantry in 44/45 is described as second to none.

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'We march. The enemy is retreating in transport. We follow on foot.' Lt.Neil McCallum 5/7 Gordons 19th November 1942

If I had thought of it I would have added.....Hollywood!
Sapper

Hey sapper

I was just wondering if you had any other stories you may have forgotten? I know that sometimes you need someone to remind you of something that happened and when you do remember it all comes flooding back.

I was talking to a Lieutenant in the modern Australian Artillery and he said that there was competition with the Australian Infantry and Artillery units, both with the fact that the Infantry were never happy with the artillerymens performance and accuracy on the battlefield, as well as the infantry grumbling about the fact that the RAAF pilots got to sleep in there nice beds with showers and hot food while the infantrymen got the trenchs, the lieutenant said that this competition and rivalry exists even to this day.

I was wondering if anything like this existed with you and the men in your unit, whether it be rivalies between you and your fellow men or with other branches of the service?

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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

No never anything like that at all. We were more concerned with what we had to deal with, than to think about any other services.

You must remember we were in action in one way or another, day in day out. The last thing we thought about was others. Every day we took our lives in our hands. Sometimes we would be in action till late, get back and be dragged out again.
The only time we were out of action, was when the enemy ran faster than us.

Or when we moved from one area to another.
For example..Tonight, we are going to lay a mine field out in front of the leading troops, and the area will be on a down slope facing the enemy.
We have to move the mines up by Bedford, and you can hear that gearbox miles away They all whined. So the truck is driven at low speed under cover of darkness, and the mines laid under the enemies noses and the mine field measured and planned for future reference. It is likely some one will be killed as the enemy has a practice of "Sweeping the front" with wide bursts of Machine gun fire.
All the time you are laying the field as silent as mice and retiring at the first ominous predawn light. How do you get away with it?

The one overriding emotion is fear..... For everyone. Now who the hell is concerned with other services?
It is very difficult to convey what it is like to be in action. Its impossible......
Cheers sapper

Fair enough when in combat, but what about when not in battle, did you or the other men have bets or competitions or some kind going on at all, or was it just the time for sleeping and eating?

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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

Hi Tomcat... Never mate..WE were far to busy to think about anything but what was in hand that day........When the enemy got away, we then had intensive river crossing training preparing for Belgium and Holland.
S

Tell you what lads...They have the last of the DD Tanks down at Bovington. Still got remnants of its canvas skirt.... though TATTY .....Just like me!

What I cannot come to terms with, is this 19 year old used to drive an M14 halftrack back to HQ to collect the next days battle orders..... set off about 1 am.

When I look at it now, I just cannot believe I drove that bloody ugly great thing.

Not only peering through the thick slit glass aperture, but in the dark as well. But drive it I did.

Stupid? Yes but then (In Holland) I was a trusted 19 year old battle hardened Veteran? Most of the old lads had gone one way or another.

For Looking back......It is just impossible
Sapper

Having just turned 32, I have started to question some of the young lads coming into service. Looking at them on the street in their civvies, you would never trust them to handle anything. But all dressed up in fatigues and some training to boot, they handle themselves well. (as I did in the mid 90ies...)

Must have been exciting to drive a DD through the Dutch night Sapper.
I don't like to navigate in foreign places at night, and that is without the risk of anyone taking shots at me.

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'We march. The enemy is retreating in transport. We follow on foot.' Lt.Neil McCallum 5/7 Gordons 19th November 1942

Thank you again for your stories, Sapper. The Gates of Hell give me a feeling I can now envision or feel for my Dad. His injury was still in Engand, but the parachute bomb took the side of his face and damaged his legs. He recovered to fight in NW Europe - Falaise, Caan, Belgium, Holland, and the Hochwald - but when he was first picked up and taken to hospital he must have had that feeling of isolation and the wonder of what would become of him - especially, during the time he was told he would never walk again. He had the same stubborness you spoke about and the will to live. Despite the many health challenges in later life which he was always told he only had a chance of surviving he always did. Even the last day of his life showed it as when he was at the library they wanted to call an ambulance and he stubbornly got on the bus home where he managed to sit down in his rocker and tell Mum he loved her before he passed. I suspect you and he would have got along famously.

After the war he was l lucky to find a job at a hardware firm, unlike some of the others. Sometimes later when I would meet Veterans who got university education post the war I would wonder why someone as brilliant as my Dad did not. It was only later that I learned that as a result of an itinerant life with his Dad during the Depression of the 30s, getting even part of a high school education had been a difficult thing.

TomCat, watch the movie "Best Years of Our Lives", it poignantly recounts what coming home could be like - regardless of the country.

Thank you for sharing so much of yourself, Sapper.

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Regards, Michelle

Oliver Goldsmith, "I love everything that's old: old friends, old times, old manners, old books, old wines."

Friends.
One of the greatest things that ever happened in this world was the Internet. For it gave us all a chance to share experience's that otherwise, would never have seen the light of day.

It is also fortunate, that this 83 year old Normandy and Market Garden Vet is capable of relating to the younger generation the tales of long ago.

At this point let me bring in a new outlook. One that I do not think many readers appreciate. That is the mighty upheaval that took place during WW2.
Believe me, it was a gigantic upheaval. The old and bad ways of sick kids. of bad education, hunger, mass unemployment. had to go. Nations were given self rule. The whole balance of world power changed....COMPLETELY!

The British Empire Vanished..... The real power now resided with the USA and Russia.

Many of the old ways gone for ever....

When what was left of the British Servicemen returned home, it was to a country utterly bankrupt without enough money to buy basics. But also, where they had lost the cream of their young men. Those young men we sorely needed to push the country forward...
They were not there.

So unbelievable as it may seem, after winning the war we now had to set about putting the country back on its feet.... Long hours of work for poor pay, food still rationed.

At the same time The Government struggled to put together a health service. To modernize the coal mines neglected by their owners. To raise production to buy Argentinian beef and other foodstuffs. The back bone of that resurgence was British Engineering and therein lay the Countries salvation.

So in fact, there were two battles. We won both. But I really do not think the world ever recognised the cost to this little nation, of fighting a war around the world for 6 long years. Or dare I suggest: the one nation entirely alone, surrounded by enemies. The last outpost of Freedom in Europe.

Of course this is all "Old Hat" stuff these days....But not for us that fought two wars. and won both.

In this, I do not for a second forget the assistance and comradeship of the USA. What better Friends than these? What better Allies? Let me say quite unequvically, that I am proud to have seen action with our American and Canadian friends......None better! Still are.
Sapper

Freedoms Bells
On darkened, late, Mid-summers night.
With restless dreams, before dawns light.
Familiar faces gather, call my name.
Come! for Freedoms Bell, lets fight again!
Then into battle, with troubled dreams.
Watch men die, scream, curse, blaspheme.

For we, who are old, the guns still roar.
And long forgotten, young voices call.
Searching mortars, for humans seek.
To maim and kill, and wounding's wreak.
Hear the screams of men, in mortal pain?
Are those the Bells? That dread refrain?

Now, Freedoms Bells no longer ring.
The debts not paid, and greed is King.
We, still live the years of mighty deeds.
And grieve for our fallen, our wounded bleed.
Who will ring the Bell of Freedoms song?
When we are gone? When we are gone?

Brian Guy.
Sapper! Veteran! Old Buffer!
246 Field Company R.E. Eighth Brigade.
Third British Infantry Division. Monty’s Ironsides!

Brian,

Thanks as always, for your kind words and amazing stories. This thread has been an inspiration to read. Thank you again, especially on this day.

Take care.

Sapper,

Thanks for regaling us with your tales. It has been truly eye opening.

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David

"It is history that teaches us to hope"
Robert E. Lee

Brian :

again a hearty thank you for your service, and your brothers in arms that gave it all from the Beaches right until the end on VE Day ......... I for one very much appreciate your thoughts of one whom was there.

stay healthy and my very best to you

Erich ~

Sapper, Wonderful poem. I was talking with my father (E.A. Campbell, Lancaster Bomber 514 Squadron) and we realized that not only are you two sharing space on this forum as veterans, but on the morning of June 6, 1944 you were both at Sword Beach. Dad's log book shows "Ouistreham - DDay"
D-Day E.A. Campbell

Regards, Wayne Campbell

Mr. Guy, you are very gifted at letting us see through your eyes and feel what you were feeling - just as your poetry evokes an emotional response.

Your poem asks:
Who will ring the Bell of Freedoms song?
When we are gone? When we are gone?

Those of us here will ring the bell and will hopefully have taught our own that their freedoms come with the responsibility to uphold them as you did in your time.

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Regards, Michelle

Oliver Goldsmith, "I love everything that's old: old friends, old times, old manners, old books, old wines."

Sapper,
Many thanks for your wonderful tales from Sword onward.
My grandfather was a despatch rider with East Riding Yeomanry (ERY) also landing and fighting with tanks on sword beach , i have a copy of his diary kept daily from D to D + 20 including the battle for Caen etc . His diary entries are similar to your tales in that you men showed unbeleivable courage and fighting spirit and amongst all this still a sense of humuor.
Thanks for sharing as the youger generation would never know and could never understand or appreciate without being told by those that are willing to share.

Steve Oz

The pity of it is that these events that I write about are so common place. What interest there would be if we could get some of the braver men to write about their experiences.... But sadly there are not many in their 80s that can deal with computers, and are willing to recall, and write about those times.

When the Veterans are amongst themselves, they do open up and natter about some of the great deeds and battles... BUT Not amongst Non vets. Why? Well the main reason is that so much of what happens is so "Way Out" that it is difficult for those without the experience, to come to terms with what seems to be the days of legends.
If I dare use that term?
So it is seldom that the Vets will talk openly. Only amongst their kin. Believe me,That is a crying ashame, For I know what great things some men did.
Sapper