http://home.no.net/thsord/b_17_%20bygland.htm

The aircraft took part in what was meant to be an attack on the German battleship "Admiral Scheer", which was near or around the harbour in Oslo, on the 8th of september 1941. The crew in AN-525 was headed for this target when they were attacked by two Messerscmitt 109 T-2 fighter planes from the 13/JG-77 Squadron at Sola airport in Stavanger. These fighters were piloted by Lt. Alfred Jakobi and Lt. Wolfgang Steinicke.

After a short and intense fight in the air, AN525 crashed into a hill, near the small village of Bygland. The entire crew lost their lives in the crash, and were buried by the Germans with full military honours at the Bygland cemetery. The fact that this was the worlds first B-17C to be shot down, it made the Germans very keen to know more about this aircraft type, and now they had parts they could examine. Two engines and some other parts were brought down to Bygland and soon sent off to Berlin for inspection.

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What about the famed"top-secret" bomb sight?

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I believe that the Norden bombsight was not fitted to the RAF B-17s....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

And the Germans already had the information through their spies, actually.

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"Norden",that's the one.Could'nt remember the name.Was it on every B-17 or just the lead planes?Read about it some where,though. So Germany already knew about it?

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In the 1920s an American inventor, Carl L. Norden, had developed a device that promised precision high-altitude bombing. The “Norden Bombsight” became America’s most important secret. By November 1937, German spies had stolen the complete plans. The theft was part of a large German espionage operation that would be known as the “Ritter Ring” for Colonel Nikolaus Ritter, who directed it from Hamburg. The Norden operation was carried out by Hermann Lang, a 36- year-old native of Germany, now a naturalized U.S. citizen living in a German-American neighborhood in Queens, New York. He worked as an assembly inspector at the Norden plant on Lafayette Street in downtown Manhattan.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/moynihan/appa5.html

But the Germans never needed it because their planes were intended for dive bombing....

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In the initial stages of the 8th USAAF strategic bombing campaign every B-17 was Norden-bombsight-equipped.

The Americans quickly realized that European skies are frequently cloudy, therefore the potential precision of the sight was often superfluous. Proper use of the sight also needed careful and time-consuming training, so the 'toggler' system was devised.

Lead aircraft in formations would have a trained Norden bombardier ; when he released, the following aircraft would 'toggle' and release their bombs at the same time.

So much for precision bombing...but that's another thread !

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Was the aircraft listed the first Fortress loss???

Luftwafffe "claims" have the following

01.07.41 Uffz. Sümmerer 3./JG 52 Fortress II  10-15 km. W. Borkum: no height

With a couple of more later in the month.

23.07.41 Fw. Karl Pfeiffer: 3./JG 2 Fortress I  La Pallice 21.51 Film
23.07.41 Uffz. Georg Schmalenberg 3./JG 2 Fortress I  La Pallice


(These are claims only, to be treated with care)

And I cant find any claims for Norway (They may have been destroyed)

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Whe're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful wizard of OZ - 6 Australian Infantry Div, Bardia January 1941

I think they really do need to be treated with care.

On 24 July, 15 Halifaxes attacked the Scharnhorst at La Pallice. 5 aircraft were lost. 79 Wellingtons, 18 Hampdens plus three Fortress 1s attacked Brest on the same day. 10 Wellingtons and 2 Hampdens were lost - the three Fortresses returned safely.

[ 11. March 2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

The 1st July claim cannot be correct - the very first sortie of 90 Squadron using Fortress Is was on July 8th to Wilhelmshaven.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I agree, the OKL listings are full of holes. But these are the records that support the victories awarded to the Luftwaffe pilots so are sacrosanct.
[img]graemlins/rk.gif[/img]

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Whe're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful wizard of OZ - 6 Australian Infantry Div, Bardia January 1941

Yes, it's rather like the Battle of Britain RAF claims. Thorough historical research supported by aviation archaelogy has made a mess of the claims which were made in all good faith literally in the heat of battle.

It's a difficult line between setting the record straight and appearing to belittle the efforts of brave men from the comfort of one's amchair....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

The story thickens:

The first British loss of a B17
In the raid on 16 August to a French Port, one of the Fortress I's was attacked at 30,000ft, the highest interception of the war at that time, It fought off the attackers but was badly damaged and 3 of the crew killed, and on landing at Roborough piled up and caught fire destroying the aircraft.

The aircraft was AN523 WP-D

On 8 September, 2 Fortresses were shot down, which was destoyed first???
They were AN523 as detailed, plus AN533

AN525 was also coded WP-D !!!!

After this mission the Squadron was withdrawn from Service.

[ 24. March 2004, 03:59 AM: Message edited by: Ali Morshead ]

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Whe're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful wizard of OZ - 6 Australian Infantry Div, Bardia January 1941