Timo ! Is that you back here again !? What have you been doing for four years ?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Well, you know, the usual stuff: worked in a nudy bar, hung around with sailors, some months in the Betty Ford. Nothing special

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Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

Well, you'll feel right at home back here at the WWII Forums, then !

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I guess! I'm taking my time to look around. So many changes, so many new members. But the old grognards like you and Carl are still around I see

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Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

Yes - the 'Altes', grizzled veterans of many a flame war !

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Hi there! I supposed we never crossed swords but if you are so inclined you'll know where to find me

good to see you again Timo it has been sometime, hope to get more input from you again via German Armor/Recon for the forums here ~

Erich

Hallo again Erich! It has been some time indeed. I'll see what I can do regarding the armor/recce topics. Unfortunately everything I wrote about Panzermeyer, Knittel and the rest of the Abteilung is still in German. I've planned to translate it but each time new information came in and that had priority over an English text version. But feel free to ask if you need specific details about this unit for any timeframe.

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Also spricht der Narr: 'der Umgang mit Menschen verdirbt den Charakter, sonderlich wenn man keinen hat.'

there would have been no gap if patton was allowed to close it before thousands of germans escaped.lee.

..and IF LeClerc hadn't sat by, waiting to liberate Paris, and IF the Canadians had moved faster up the Falaise/Trun road, and IF......

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I will reply in the manner of the original post.
It was decided by Patton's superior that he was in danger of being flattened by the retreating Germans. It was judged he was not up to the task.

i understood patton,and the soldiers under his command,were withdrawn by bradley.but montgomery had already ordered his army c/o,s to disregard army boundaries.so how many u.s units did patton have at this time.what are these what ifs.this is a discusstion based upon hopefully fact.lee.

Wilts,

Are you suggesting that Patton disobey orders? However big Patton's mouth was, I never knew anybody who accused him of that.

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David

"It is history that teaches us to hope"
Robert E. Lee

It seems to be assumed that the whole of 3rd Army was just outside the Falaise Pocket and was raring to go.

In fact, 'Patton at Falaise' consisted of Wade Haislip's XV Corps which in turn was made up of two armoured and two infantry divisions. One of the armoured divisions was Leclerc's and he most certainly did disobey direct orders - and for political reasons, was immune from censure.

There was a real risk - identified from ULTRA decrypts - that the Germans were seriously considering a counterattack into the exposed left flank of Haislip's forces which were becoming over-extended. Patton was very aware of this danger and hoped to persuade Bradley to send Hodges eastward to protect XV Corps' flank.

This of course didn't happen, Haislip wa temporarily halted at Argenten which allowed the Germans to strengthen their defences, the French virtually disengaged, and Patton was happy to turn his attentions to the Seine and beyond.

The main reason for the disappointment of Falaise was that Eisenhower, Montgomery and Bradley considered the Germans to be almost 'finished' and simply needing containment at the Seine, and not grasping the opportunity of total destruction ( it has been pointed out by a number of historians that the Allies were doctrinally unprepared for battles of encirclement and annihilation, unlike the Russians ).

The error of the 'finished Germans' would be seen again at Arnhem and the in the Ardennes.

The above I've absorbed from various books, especially Martin Blumenson's 'The Battle Of The Generals'.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

so patton had a corps available.he already had forward elements in falaise.so you are telling me ,patton,the finest general in many peoples eyes,in the e.t.o,did not take this gamble to close the bag,was because ultra said so.there is more to this than meets the eye.all the allied army c/o,s were ordered to throw caution to the wind,by monty.did bradley and patton not talk to one another.lee.p.s i cannot believe bradly was scared or thought patton was not capable of this job.

Huh?

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David

"It is history that teaches us to hope"
Robert E. Lee

my grammer is crap dirtydick,look on the other forum , the one i been lifetime banned from, about disabled people.i can only use 1 finger.lee.

Patton could read a map, was very aware of the enemy's dispositions, and was aware of Haislip's exposed flank. He also respected the resourcefulness of the Germans and realised the potential problem even before his thoughts were confirmed by messages decoded through ULTRA.

( FWIW, I never learned to type so I'm only typing with two fingers.... )

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

i thought patton would relish the opportunity to destroy or bag these batterd german divisions.they were being sqweezed from every direction.even if what was left of the germans attacked xv corps,was 4 divisions not enough to at least stop these battered units.the2nd french armd div,would surely have engaged as well.lee.

"my grammer is crap dirtydick,look on the other forum , the one i been lifetime banned from, about disabled people.i can only use 1 finger.lee."

Wilts,

Your fingers have nothing to do with your grammar and syntax. It is hard to know whether you are making valid points if I can't figure out what you are trying to say. Additionally, Google lists 616,000 hits for "forums disability." Could you be a little more vague? And finally, if you are going to be so petty as to call people names, then maybe there is a reason why you were banned.

So unless your disability includes mental incapacity, then it is no excuse for not making sense. And judging by your other posts, this is not the case.

Good day, Sir!

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David

"It is history that teaches us to hope"
Robert E. Lee

Where do you get that from ? Every single source I've ever read on the subject makes it abundantly clear that the French were interested in one thing and one thing only - the liberation of Paris. After taking the Sarthe bridge at Alencon, Leclerc fundamentally ignored the orders he was given by the Americans. He was taking his orders from de Gaulle who wanted the 2eme Divn to be kept intact for Paris.

So the answer is - no, they would not have engaged ; they were there - and they didn't.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

syntax,what is this.i will look in a dicsionary later..sorry i upset you sir.the whole point is to find out why the germans in normandy were not destroyed,which imo was possible.not just from the south,where imo bradley and patton were less than cordial to each other,but also from the north,where the same could be said about montgomery and gen.crerar.as to the point about mental stuff,if taking gabapentin,valium and amatriptaline.along with strong painkilling drugs like dihidracodeine,make me mental,then yes ,i have a mental problem,sir.yours,lee..