Lancaster Bomber 514 Squadron - Page 18

**E.A.Campbell** · #**426** (**permalink**) August 26th, 2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robo283

It is a bit disappointing how little information there is about the squadron in most other publications; however I imagine this is the case with most Main Force squadrons formed 'for the duration'. Wendy Flemming in Canada and Clive Hill in the UK in particular have worked wonders to hold things together. I also had a great deal of help from Ron Pickler in getting useful background material.

There was a 514 Squadron website set up a year or so ago but I wasn't able to access it when I last tried. It would surely be useful to pool all the photos and stories on such a site. There is also now a spreadsheet of operational details (again, thanks to Wendy) which appears to be very comprehensive. From this and such sources as The Bomber Command Diaries it is now possible to view the entire operational history along with personal details of all involved. There must still be stacks of unseen photos out there somewhere as well.

What is most important of course is to record the personal memories and anecdotes of the members of the squadron; these are irreplaceable and beyond value.

They make fascinating reading for those of us who weren't there.

Welcome Simon to the 514 thread. I can't place the names of those aircrew you mentioned but am glad you've been in touch with Wendy, Ron and Clive.
They are among the great many who have given so much time and effort to
bring all this valuable information to light. Cheers Alex Campbell

Erich · #**427** (**permalink**) August 27th, 2007, 02:47 AM

welcome Simon, just checking and no there are no Flak forums in any country on the web.

are you for certain that your relatives craft was destroyed by Flak ? there are over 11 confirmations to LW night fighters the night you speak of. rounds of twin 2cm Schräge Musik can also be a similar indicator to flak hits

Skipper · #**428** (**permalink**) August 27th, 2007, 06:47 AM

Yes, especially if they come unexpected and from below. Many crews did never have a chance to see the nightfighter who got them because of the famous dead angle.

pebblemonkey · #**429** (**permalink**) August 27th, 2007, 12:50 PM

Hi All,
I run a living history group dedicated to the wartime RAF Regiment,
at the moment we`re venturing back into aircrew portrayals.

We`re working on 156 Pathfinder Sqn and 305 Polish nightfighter sqns.
we have two members that represent the RAAF as bomber crews aswell.

Hopefully meaning we`ll have a full bomb crew for airshows and displays + more trips on Just Jane at East Kirby.

Matt

Robo283 · #**430** (**permalink**) August 29th, 2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

welcome Simon, just checking and no there are no Flak forums in any country on the web.

are you for certain that your relatives craft was destroyed by Flak ? there are over 11 confirmations to LW night fighters the night you speak of. rounds of twin 2cm Schräge Musik can also be a similar indicator to flak hits

Erich,

Thanks for your comments.

Yes I am certain it was flak. There was a verified eye-witness account of the loss of Peter's aircraft, published in 'Luck and a Lancaster'. The operation was in daylight and the aircraft was shot down on approach to the target at about 1400hrs local time i.e in daylight. I had kept an open mind until reading the account, which describes the loss of all three a/c lost on that op. I then managed to contact the author, Harry Yates, and discussed it at length with him. Grand fellow to speak to, still with a clear memory of what he went through.

There were also night ops but this was definitely daylight. I understand from various sources that Homberg was notoriously well-defended, which would not be a surprise as I understand it is close to the Ruhr.

Erich · #**431** (**permalink**) August 29th, 2007, 06:28 PM

interesting well this shows my lack still of many of the RAF heavy bomber operations as I thought the daylight heavy ops only started up in 1945.

yes in the Ruhr-Gebeit where I still have relatives, 88, 105 and even single 128mm Flak was present as the area was rich in industrial "prizes" and needed adequate ground to air protection.

thank you for guiding me onto the day light mission

Robo283 · #**432** (**permalink**) August 29th, 2007, 06:43 PM

Certainly I get the impression that bombing was round the clock by late 1944, especially as the invasion of Western Europe brought the Ruhr within range of RAF fighters as well as USAAF, so that the heavies had effective protection.

21st November 1944 was apparently very cloudy, but this was academic as the flak was (I presume) radar-directed and the Lancs were equipped with Gee-H. Peter's crew were Gee-H trained.

**E.A.Campbell** · #**433** (**permalink**) September 3rd, 2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pebblemonkey

Hi All,
I run a living history group dedicated to the wartime RAF Regiment,
at the moment we`re venturing back into aircrew portrayals.

We`re working on 156 Pathfinder Sqn and 305 Polish nightfighter sqns.
we have two members that represent the RAAF as bomber crews aswell.

Hopefully meaning we`ll have a full bomb crew for airshows and displays + more trips on Just Jane at East Kirby.

Matt

Pebble, glad you mentioned the RAF REGIMENT. For 2 weeks in the spring of '44 I was in a group posted to a "battle school" course at RAF Station Methwold. We were subjected to a number of inhumane and diabolical exercises. This took place under the guise of survival tactics in the event of escape or evasion. We were in top physical and mental condition(so we were told) and maybe so as only a few did not completely survive, due to sprained ankles, punctured ear drums, etc. We were devoid of rank and uniform being garbed in brownish coveralls sporting a round orange patch on our backs. The course was administered by the RAF REGIMENT whose helpers delighted in ordering us about. This particular chapter of our training was referred to in wide range of adjectives most of which unprintable here. I'll have to admit it was considered by us all as a worthwhile venture. Maybe you could add more info as I've been unable to find much on it. Cheers Alex Campbell

pebblemonkey · #**434** (**permalink**) September 3rd, 2007, 11:18 PM

Hello Sir,
Yes the RAF Regiment did take great pleasure in RAF escape and evasion tactical training. Will get researching and let you know all the details.

Nowadays the RAF Survival School does the training for both Aircrews and Groundcrews, Favourite story is the guys were living off the land except for an ozzie who had collared a local paperboy and was fetching him sweets and newspapers (Ozzies are tough but not stupid).

All the best
Matt

Skipper · #**435** (**permalink**) September 4th, 2007, 07:57 AM

Yesterday Christian and I were on our local Tv (OrleansTV) for a 13mn interview (in French) . We of course used this opportunity to talk about our new association (Mémoires d'Aviateurs /Aviator Memories) and the A2-C crash. The Tv showed about a dozen of Christian's artworks on screen, as well as maps and "now and then" pictures of WWII airmen. We had to choose between several veterans but obviously Alex Campbell the Rebrechien crash , + a few other favorites were amongst them. Others were U.S Canadian and British bomber and fighter crews. It was live so it's not on line, but I hope to get a copy on DVD and share views with you. I hope local people will give us positive feedback and that this will help us to keep on going with the research of A2-C.

**E.A.Campbell** · #**436** (**permalink**) September 4th, 2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipper67

Yesterday Christian and I were on our local Tv (OrleansTV) for a 13mn interview (in French) . We of course used this opportunity to talk about our new association (Mémoires d'Aviateurs /Aviator Memories) and the A2-C crash. The Tv showed about a dozen of Christian's artworks on screen, as well as maps and "now and then" pictures of WWII airmen. We had to choose between several veterans but obviously Alex Campbell the Rebrechien crash , + a few other favorites were amongst them. Others were U.S Canadian and British bomber and fighter crews. It was live so it's not on line, but I hope to get a copy on DVD and share views with you. I hope local people will give us positive feedback and that this will help us to keep on going with the research of A2-C.

Good for you Skipper and I'm glad Christian got some coverage too. Good luck Alex Campbell

Skipper · #**437** (**permalink**) September 4th, 2007, 12:33 PM

Thank you for your support. I hope people will call with new information.
Your story is getting quite famous, not only in Chateaudun , but also in Orleans now.

E. Campbell · #**438** (**permalink**) September 18th, 2007, 01:15 AM

Some more news on this thread.

Dad's navigator was Earl "Judy" Garland. Earl was injured during the attack, he was hit by shrapnel or bullets in one leg. He successfully parachuted from the aircraft, dad tells me he signaled a Churchill "V for Victory" as he exited the aircraft. Earl hit the ground very close to a German guard post, he attempted to run but stopped when the guards shot towards him. He was taken prisoner and was liberated by the Russians near the end of the war. Apparently he was treated better by the Germans then the Russians.
Earl's son recently came across this forum and contacted us, he sent some scanned images including his dad's POW papers, images of his Mom and Dad and a letter from an RCAF chaplain to Margaret, Earl's wife - a letter without much hope.
There is also a map of a forced march that Earl took part in, perhaps someone on the forum can shed some light on this.

Link to Images: Picasa Web Albums - EWC - Earl Garland

Click the "magnify" icon to increase the size of these images, I uploaded them in full size.

Wayne

Skipper · #**439** (**permalink**) September 18th, 2007, 04:38 PM

Hello Wayne. I will look up my archives regarding the death march. I know Canadian veterans who walked this march and who are still alive. The reason why is that the Russians drew closer to the Stalags (I will come up with the names later) and the POWS had to walk during the early 1945 month towards the west where they were put into another camp until the Russians "freed" them. Great news regarding Earl Garland! I will go and watch the pictures now and comment later too.

Skipper · #**440** (**permalink**) September 18th, 2007, 05:18 PM

I just saw Earl Garlands pictures and.... Wow!! Upon a first look I can see that he arrived at Stalag Dulag Luft on August 6th 1944, which means , almost immediately after his capture. He was provided healed in France for a day or two and interrogated in Chateaudun before being sent to Germany via Paris. This is speculation, but this was the usual way for pows who were captured in his area. Also I read that he was a chemist. The other card is from Stalag Luft VII. I have to check whether this is the second camp from 1945 or the code for Dulag his first camp. Also the closest German post near the crash side was Baigneaux (not far from the Arthur farm in fact) and this is probably the place he was captured. This is where the Germans put soem of their Falk to protect the Chateadun base. I'll be back with more later. The death march postcard is very interesting too. It shows the March from Silesia where the first camp was to the west, near the Chech border.

E. Campbell · #**441** (**permalink**) September 18th, 2007, 11:19 PM

Skipper thanks for the input. Earl Garland's sons tell me they have additional material to contribute, I'm sure they are following your comments with interest.

Wayne

E. Campbell · #**442** (**permalink**) September 18th, 2007, 11:20 PM

Skipper, Erich, Otto and others,

I had a chance to speak to our local Kiwanis club about the role this forum played, and continues to play, in reconstructing the story of July 28, 1944.
I had a projector and was able to show the group many of the images that have accumulated here. The group was impressed with the art work that Skipper sent us.
Another person following this story is Earl Jones, the mid-upper gunner of A2 - C. Earl left a message at the Google Video site.
Avro Lancaster - 514 Squadron

You may have to click the comments link to see his comment.

Wayne

Skipper · #**443** (**permalink**) September 18th, 2007, 11:47 PM

This is truly amazing. I really hope that one day all the families will be united, including the Giffins. If I am correct there are at least three other crew members or their families who are in touch with you. Also glad that the group likes the A2-C art work. I will be going for a 24h trip to Normandy tomorrow to meet an American friend but when I am back I will try to get more info about the death march and the place Earl Garland was captured. Also if the Garlands and the Jones (and other crew memeber families if more are in contact) want a copy of the A2-C artwork, they are welcome to contact me. Now I have even more reasons to drive back to the Chateadun area.

Erich · #**444** (**permalink**) September 18th, 2007, 11:53 PM

Wayne :

any type of hope that we can see part of the action here on this site by Earl or familie rememberances.

not sure of anyones PC-net hook-up but wouldn't that be something if possible ?

E ~

E. Campbell · #**445** (**permalink**) September 20th, 2007, 08:06 PM

I have received more images regarding Earl Garland, some images from his log-book posted here:
Picasa Web Albums - EWC - Earl_Garland_log

He details some incidents (attacks, flak etc) from the period he was flying on Operations.
Wayne.