this might be irrelevent but thought I would throw in one of the photos of pilot of 1./NJGr 10 F.E. Krause and his A-6 with FuG 217. he flew this rig in spring and summer of 44 chasing of all things RAF mossies and 4-motors over and near Berlin.

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fw190n-03.jpg (45.6 KB, 11 views)

This is not directly related to this thread but involves a family connection to another Alex Campbell, not my father.

The story is complicated but here is the short version. My mother's step-sister also married a Campbell, this fellow's father was Alex Campbell and he was a soldier in the second world war. Major Alex Campbell, was killed near the Moro River–south of Ortona–on Christmas Day 1943.

A poem was found in his battle jacket - "Prayer Before Battle", the poem was written by Alex Campbell and is often read at commemorative ceremonies.
Our Member of Provincial Parliament read the poem in the legislature last remembrance day.

Prayer Before Battle
Major Alex Campbell

When 'neath the rumble of the guns,
I lead my men against the Huns,
'Tis then I feel so all alone and weak and scared,
And oft I wonder how I dared,
Accept the task of leading men.

I wonder, worry, fret, and then I pray,
Oh God! Who promised oft
To humble men a listening ear,
Now in my spirit's troubled state,
Draw near, dear God, draw near, draw near.

Make me more willing to obey,
Help me to merit my command,
And if this be my fatal day,
Reach out, Oh God, Thy Guiding Hand,
And lead me down that deep, dark vale.

These men of mine must never know
How much afraid I really am,
Help me to lead them in the fight
So they will say, "He was a man".

I found this comment apparently from the chaplain of the company:
"As his body was lowered into its last resting place, and the little white cross, bearing his name and rank, was erected at its head, everyone came to attention, and said, "He was a man!""

This is a very moving and nice poem. I one received a song that was written for another fallen Canadian airman who is buried in my hometown. We played it during the July 28th/29th commemoration in 2004.

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yes a very touching poem thanks for this

let me add something too on the Bf 109G-6's that were seen and engaged by the RAF during 1943 and early 1944 as by June the 109NF's had gone through a notable change. In 43 nearly all the 109's had the underwing 20mm gun pods as we get closer into 1944 the underwing guns were removed as the 109 NF's were also fighting in a dual role - engaging high flying US escort fighters and then trying to play the role of RAF bomber chasers. By summer of 44 the 109NF units were ordered to fly close in the defense of Berlin and engage the LSNF Mossies and Mossie intruders and make the 109 as light as possible this was for the 10th Nacht staffel of JG 300 as well as the mixture of single engines in 1./NJGr 10 and by August/September head armor and inf act nearly all the protective armor was removed and some of the 109's were receiving a high glaze spray on polish finish with some 109's even having the bolts and seems puttied over just to get that extra amount of speed for the Mossie pursuits. Specialized paint was used, some of the 109's in all over RLM 76, some with black undersides some with entirely all blue finish and then of course the standard day fighter camouflage which was then carried out by winter -spring of 44-45, the carry over now to just pursuit of the heavy 4-engine bombers which was doing the most damage to the German cities of population and industry centres and finally in spring of 45 the fight to stop the Soviets from entering Germany from the east and the carry outs of night/day ground attack sorties

this is of course a coverage in a single breath and not at all very detailed....

Alex any thoughts or dates to cover versus the LW 109/Fw's ??

Erich, when I find my Rear Gunners log book I will add more information about the 109 and FW attacks.

Wayne arrived and helped post a couple of Anson images
In 1941 I worked at Dominion Skyways (Training) Limited at Malton, Ontario.
This company was responsible for servicing Anson's used by the BCATP.
These pictures were captured in 1941 at Number 1, Air Observers School, Malton.

Images: Picasa Web Albums - Alex - Anson

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Alex the pic with you and Taffy and the rear turret is still one of the most classy photos from your stint in the war............thanks

I'll be waiting for the rear gunner accounts

yes I especially love the aspect of the rear turret guns. When they are in a standing position thye almost look kike a pair a bag pipes ready to go to battle.

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Have been working on restoring the rear turret pic with the "Browning" bagpipes. Computer is hi-speed, brain is dial-up. Indulgence please. Alex

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Alex :

"Browning bagpipes" that is a great name............ in fact I am keeping that one for future use somewhere

Yes I have always thought of bagpipes when I saw these, besides there was a Scott on this Lancaster

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Great pictures Mr Campbell ! I have a few more questions. Did the Anson have a manual gun turret or was it powered ? Did the right hand controls in the Anson fold up or how did the crewman get to the nose of the aircraft ? Looks impossible to do in the picture.

Were you disappointed to be assigned to bombers instead of fighters or were you happy to just fly ?

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

TA I'm sure the turrets were manual and not many were functional as we removed them and faired over the opening on their arrival from Britain. This increased the speed and lowered fuel consumption. I know the undercarriage was manual. While employed there we could scrounge the odd "flip" and after take-off we were allowed to wind up the undercart with over 100 turns of the crank. Lowering was slightly easier.
It seems to me the rudder pedal support arms could be disengaged and pivoted up in a stowage position and there was enough room between the throttle quadrant and control column for a body to squirm down to the bomb aimers' position.
Yes most aircrew envisioned themselves as fighter pilots. But in all trades the rapid pace and challenges of the schedule kept our minds occupied with little time for brooding. I'm sure I got my share of excitement. You are observant TA. Alex

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Here is the "bagpipe" picture on behalf of Alex Campbell

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Just think how cold and cramped it was to be back there with no glass to protect you from the cold and wet. Not to mention how exposed you would feel when the an Me-110 shows up with it's cannon. On the other hand I am sure the view while in flight was breath taking !

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

Thanks Skipper for the posting. The Brownings, we were told, had a firing rate of some 20 rounds per second. I think in reality more like 12 rps. In the pilots armament course I had to dismantle and reassemble a .303 to firing condition. We were given ample time but the gunners had to accomplish this in darkness (or blindfold). All in all they were a good and reliable weapon with no more than expected number of stopages due to extreme cold and thickening lube etc. The frequency of tracer shells was every third for daytime and probably 7 or 10 for night. However they came out so fast it looked like an endless stream. Hope to come up with a bit on the Me 109 and their tactics. Alex

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I read that some rear gunners actually kind of liked the intense cold to keep them away because their position was essential for spotting dangers.

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Hello All:

Can't believe I didn't click on this amazing thread sooner - this is the internet at its very best.

Earlier in the thread a Mosquito crash on 6 January 1944 was mentioned. The 464 Squadron ORB, which is available online at National Archives of Australia, states that the crew were F/Sgt Kenneth Royce Russell and W/O Ernest Roy Lumsdaine. Royce was a New Zealander, Lumsdaine an Aussie.

Some mention has been made of the Lost Bombers website. If it hasn't been noted before, the names of the Giffin crew are listed there:

Lost Bombers - World War II Lost Bombers

Also, I should mention, if you're not already aware, that a Lancaster bomber is under restoration at the Toronto Aerospace Museum, on the site of the old de Havilland Canada plant at the former Downsview airport. Their website is here:

FM104 Home Page, Toronto's Lancaster Bomber

This is the aircraft which stood for many years in front of the Canadian National Exhibition site near the waterfront. When I was at the museum, they mentioned that a number of aircrew veterans are among their regular visitors.

Thanks again for this wonderful discussion.

Mhuxt , your links and comments are very welcome. The Campbells will apreciate this help too. Glad you like this great discussion.

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Yes Mhuxt, Glad you clicked on this thread. I'm learning more and more all the time, thanks for your research and input. E A Campbell

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The subject of wingloading has likely been a decisive factor on many occasions. The outcome of the following duel with an Me 109 may well have been influenced in that way.
After the startling command "Fighter Port Go!" the rear gunner immediately added " Tighten the turn skipper- tighten." "More skipper- more"- "Tighter"
I had no time to wonder why I should not continue with the corkscrew nor was it my place to do other than follow the instructions of the gunners. The calls increased in urgency as the "G" forces pulled the cheeks away from the eyeballs. Suddenly my arm slammed down onto my knee and I just could not seem to raise my hand back up to the control wheel. After two full revolutions I heard "He's broken away skipper" and was able to restore more normal flight conditions without losing attitude control.
Sorry Erich and Skipper I cannot pinpoint this incident. I wonder if our inverted flight episode with the simultaneous attacks had any relation, (I guess not) . We had no knowledge then of any structural deficiencies of the fighters. The see saw batle was endless such as the Spitfires" inability to dive away fast enough to avoid the German fighters.
That's enough for now. Cheers Alex Campbell

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