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Regards,

Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/thehistoryvault/
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/Historian/

Great find Gordon! Wittmann's death has been something that puzzled me for years, it's good to have some sort of closure there. Unfortunately the article didn't present any evidence of the Etkins kills, I'd like to know for myself how they proved Wittmann's demise.

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"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." Socrates

Yes, it was a bit ambiguous Otto. I remember After the Battle has covered the subject on a number of occasions, but I can't put my hands on my collection just now. Here's the complete index of issues for anyone wishing to investigate further.

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Regards,

Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/thehistoryvault/
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/Historian/

Something still seems out of the ordinary to me. I just don't see how Wittmann could have been taken out by a fresh replacement who had never fired a shot in combat, let alone only five in training. But who knows, anything is possible.

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The full story including pictures is in Pallud's book Panzers in Normandy, Then and Now. Looking at the photos and the account of the action, Wittman had obviously spend too much time in Russia. He and the three other Tigers of his platoon were 'charging' across a flat open landscape against at least a squadron of Canadian Shermas, including Fireflys. Eyewitness accounts (other than the one linked here) say at least 3 to 5 Shermans were firing on Wittmann's tank.
Unlike in Russia where crews often got a minimum of training and were using the T 34/76, handicapped with a 2 man turret and a gun that could not penetrate a Tiger I, the Canadians had 1 tank in 4 Fireflys that were more than capable of drilling a Tiger at considerable range.
Wittmann's over-confidence was the end of him. Maybe he began to believe his own legend....

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Truth is stranger than bullshit!

the mission was suicide and Wittmann had a premonition; this was given to the 101 SS crews not in attendanace along with the recon protion of the Heavy SS panzer unit which watched in horror the strikes from the Canadians on the flanks of the 5 Tiger 1's. to the north of these knocked out Tigers, another Tiger 1 was abandoned. Earlier before spreading out into the fields this Panzer kompanie had previously destroyed ? Candian Shermans in combat. Funny one of the German acct.'s I have mentions that just 1 Firelfy destroyed all 5 Tiger 1's but that is not correct.
Wittmann and his sergeants were caught with their pants down, even with their long barrels pointing the wrong direction receiving full attention of the Canadians in superb positions

This weekend I watched the worlds only running Tiger trundling around a field on a rainy day in Dorset.
Running smoothly and Truly formidable, I'd never seen her moving and it's 1000 miles from any 'Static' Tiger on display, her sheer 'presence' is surprising.
As I watched I thought of the Wittman 'legend' and those Shermans hammering away at his troop. I'm very glad they succeeded.
Wittman, Carius and the like have had so much coverage and yet allied tank 'aces' are generally ignored or disregarded .
Staff Sgt. Lafayette G. Poole for one.
Here's to Him.

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

i read a book a few years ago by a tanker called ken tout, simply called tank it told of the operations in normandy, as i recall he accreditted the kill of whitmans tank to a tank with the sherwood foresters,whitman was occupied with getting into a firing position against shermans he saw on a hill but hadnt seen him, as he crept toward them th long hours of combat must of dulled his reflex's as he let his target take all his concentration so didnt see the sherman behind the hedgerow that accounted for him, that is what i remember from the book and will have to hunt it out to check.

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It was proper we should wear eagles upon our shoulders, for only birds could have reached the heights we did or visited the lands we did.

Perhaps it was Wittmans 1st encounter with a Firefly. I doubt after all that experience he had he would be full of himself or suffereing of Superman complex.

The Firefly was an upgraded version of the normal Sherman fitted with a powerful 76mm gun - the only one that could penetrate the thick armour of a Tiger.

On tanker aces........

Top American tanker was probably Staff Sergeant Lafayette G. Pool, who had little experience in tank warfare, [and was fighting against Panthers in his hopelessly outclassed M4]

During his short career Pool and his crew were credited with 258 enemy vehicles kills, from Kubelwagens to Panther tanks. The crew of "In the Mood" had taken over 250 prisoners and killed over 1,000 German soldiers.

The highpoint in the sergeant's exploits came at Namur, Belgium, when he and his regiment killed sixteen enemy tanks with a loss of only five of theirs. Pool was credited with 3 tank kills, including a Panther at close range.

It was during a night action near Colombier, France. In the darkness, Pool's tank nearly rammed the Panther before it became visible. The Panther got off two panicked shots at close range but missed.

Corporal Oller, the ever-alert gunner (it was said he saw all of France and Germany through the sights of his main gun) calmly took aim, fired, and ripped the heavy turret from the body of the enemy tank.

Finding themselves then surrounded by German infantry, Pool's crew fought them off with machine gun fire till reinforcements appeared.


By all accounts the top Russian ace was Guards Capt. Samokhin Konstantin, 4th Tank Brigade, in BT-7's, and T-34's, died in 1942 with 69 kills + 13 other AFVs, 82 guns, 117 motor vehicles.
Although Lavrinenko Dmitriy (T-34, 4th tank brigade) is some times mentioned as the top Panzer killer.

The Firefly had the British 17pdr, the 76mm was the 3" Gun and used by US Tankers in their Shermans.

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Whe're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful wizard of OZ - 6 Australian Infantry Div, Bardia January 1941

This has a nice picture of a SU-152 and a list of Russian tank aces. Some of the pictures look like they were touched up alot.

http://wio.ru/tank/ww2aces.htm

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

Thanks for the link TA. I enjoyed reading it in Russian

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/breakout/out2.htm#top

Some good pics here.

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So who did get him? All that I read above say it was a Canadian that got Wittman. Was the 1st Northamptonshire Canadian?

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Facta non verba. "Deeds, not words"

bloody tabloid daily mail. i just can't take an article which refers to a fighting german soldier as a nazi seriously ("the young trooper knocked out three heavily-armoured German Tiger tanks - including one containing the 30-year-old Nazi..."). Even supposing Wittmann was a self-declared nazi (which i have never seen any proof of), his political views are in my opinion totally irrelevant in this article, since wittmann was first and foremost a soldier who didn't have anything to do with politics, and the article is about his death on the battlefield. i wouldn't be surprised if the "professional" writers at the daily mail are confusing the waffen-SS with the einsatzgruppen... Not taking any credit from ekins's remarkable deed, i also think he could show a little more respect to the greatest tank-ace that ever lived.

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"There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people"
-Heinz Guderian

While I have little truck with the Mail I see absolutely no problem with referring to Wittman as a Nazi.
Being a Haupsturmfuhrer in the SS is a bit of a clue, but being a battalion commander in the LSSAH with such coverage in Signal etc. as a hero of the regime can be seen as some sort of confirmation. He can quite safely be covered in English by the term Nazi or Soldier. In many cases the two are surely allowably interchangable?
Cheers.
Adam

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

Was he a party member?

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Don't think so.
Joined SS in '36 if I recall.

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

I just think it's unprofessional journalism. Wittmann wasn't a part of the regime, he was a soldier. Yes, he fought for the regime, and yes, he was a hero of the regime, but nonetheless he was a soldier, not a politician. Same goes for Rommel, just as an example. As far as i know Wittmann didn't reach his high position because of his political views or deeds, but because of his actions on the battlefield. I don't know, he might have been a devoted nazi, and an awful person in private, but this article isn't really about his character, is it? I just think he should be respected as a fine soldier before everything else. Same goes for Rudel, for instance, I despise him for his fanatic nazi ideals, but still marvel at what he accomplished.

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"There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people"
-Heinz Guderian

He may well have been a fine soldier, but he was an instrument of the Nazi regime who used his name and reputation for their advantage; anyone fighting for Nazi Germany in WW2 was the same. They may not have been shovelling bodies into the furnaces themselves, but they were all part of the regime that did, and it is hard to escape from that. Some may have resisted the regime, like Rommel and the bomb plotters, but you could argue that was only when things were going bad for Germany: which leaves a rather hollow tone IMHO.

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Paul Reed
Webmaster - Battlefields of WW2- http://www.ww2battlefields.info
D Day Ancestors: The British Army in Normandy - http://www.ddayancestors.com

No, they were part of the British Army and a tank unit in 33rd Armoured Brigade. Good article (although it is for FOW wargaming) here:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=313

There has always been some debate over who killed Wittmann. A good on-line article is here:

http://www.panzerace.net/english/pz_bio_05.asp?page=3

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Paul Reed
Webmaster - Battlefields of WW2- http://www.ww2battlefields.info
D Day Ancestors: The British Army in Normandy - http://www.ddayancestors.com