Who can help me with to identify this crash? I am currently working on an unidentified German crashsite in France. I only have a few clues at this point.

1) An eye witness who saw it crash in a swamp in the Orleans forest, probably in 1942, due to engine failure. The man took me to the crashsite and I can confirm that there are still small parts of wreckage.
2) He told me it was a german fighter.
3) The pilot bailed out successfully and got back to his unit.
4) the witness remembers that shortly after the war,someone took a small piece with a factory brand showing a walking ice bear (it's not a staffel emblem, but something that was inside)
5)The aircraft is buried in a swamp with acid earth and water, so the pieces of wreckage are very corroded. I could however find a piece with the blueish grey paint confirming a 1942 camouflages (see pics), rather than a grey paint which is also there but more like an undercoat.
There is also a speedometer (very corroded in the front but almost intact at the back) with the plug, the wires and the brand "HD" . There are a bunch of spars , a spark plug, electrical wires , parts of fuselage , a circular lid, a brake pad (I think) a thin aluminium pipe (1 meter long) .There is also some black rubber with glue (from a fuel tank? )











My conclusions at this point are that it could be a JG2 or JG26 fighter (ME109 or FW190) . I am only looking for losses, withing 200km from the crashsite that state a 100% loss and a pilot who is safe, not MIA or KIA . The witness saw him walk and talk to people and it is certain that he returned to his unit.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Skipper, great photos and very interesting.

Wayne

Thank you. I have cleaned more parts with blue paint. It's actually bluer than it looks. Also on the first picture , on the lower right part there is a piece that could be part of a control pannel . On the spar plug there are numbers , but I can't read a brand which could identify the plane. I know there are others parts in a barn. I will go there ad try to find out more.

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I am mostly focussing on a JG26 FW190 loss of Summer 1942. Is there a data list for these months available for this Geschwader for the period between May and September 1942?

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Fascinating story and photos, Skipper. As is so often the case, there seem to be no identifiable parts there at present to unlock the mystery of the aircraft type.

I watch your progress with keen interest !

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Well I have two serious hints.

1) The eye witness has an entire box with parts he got in 1945 and kept in his barn for over 60 years. I hope there will be a serial number somewhere. It's just an hour drive so it's a matter of days to find an appointement with the gentleman and get the material.
2) I am restoring the spark plug and found several numbers on it , may be something that looks like BMW+ a bunch of numbers , but nothing positive, just a guess at this point.

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I can feel the excitement and I'm not even going there !

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I can't wait either. If only I can get a relic that would help me to positively identify at least the type of the plane. If I can find a BMW piece it would greatly help, but the earth is acid (pine trees) and the serial numbers are mostly corroded. I have a couple of hours on wednesday so I will ask if the guy is home.

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I got the box with relics from the gentleman. It is great material . Very puzzling though. There are some factory numbers available such as 415, 417 etc... and a heraldry in some spares that shows BA (possibly Bacher flugzeug Werke?) . There are larger uncorroded aluminium pieces that remind of a FW190 , but nothing positive at this point. There are electrical devices, such as wires, a plug, a little knob with looks like a part of the MG electrical connection (red wires and screws are still there ) . There are also parts of the fuselage with RLM 65 (blue) and other which have to be confirmed but look like darker green , dark brown (interior of the cockpit) , black (codes and crosses) and curiously one small part with RLM 2 (grey) .That part could have been used as a repair spare. There are several spars and parts of the fuselage, also a piece of a 5mn armored plate that was probably behind the pilot seat. Also something that looks like a small battery , a very small part of the hood. I am comparing these parts with a cutaway , but the pieces are very small and corroded so it is hard to clean them without losing what's left of the original paint. As soon as I get a millimeter of paint I can mostly tell whether it's outside or inside , fuselage or not etc... Some of the aluminium I have is shinig like it was cast recently, other parts are corroded to the point that it falls apart when you touch it. I am still thinking about a 1942 FW190 but it could be later and I still haven't abandonned the idea of a ME109.

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This drawing was made by an eye witness. The man told me he saw this stencilled painted bear with a text (company name?) in German inside the fuselage. The size is about 30cm x 6cm . It represents a walking ice bear. It has nothing to do with a Staffel emblem. Does anyobody know which factory used this mark for quality controls?


Any help would be greatly appreciated, it could lead to the identification of this aircraft.

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this got lost in the shuffle of posts. Skipper do you have a pic of the Speedometer to show us here, that may help as to what type of a/c if it was a LW fighter or not possibly .......... recon ?

E `

Have you tried e-mailing BMW or Damiler to see if the walking ice bear gives them any ideas if it is their product ? I am sure they have historians for their companys. Worth a shot in the dark.

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

Richard you just popped an idea into my skull.....

Skipper go here and join up and post. A German LW site but you may just get an answer to ID

LuftArchiv.de - Das Archiv der Deutschen Luftwaffe

the forum link is on the left side after everything goes through it's transition mode to load up the front page..........give it a full minute at least as it loads slowly sometimes. a great bunch of guys here

E ~

Thanks guys,

I have advanced a lot regarding this search and yes I have pictures I will post later.

I now know that it a ME-109 G6. (I still need an I.D plate for positive identification) . I identified some parts from a DB605 engine including the lateral turbo rotor and other elements. This engine was thrown to a scrapsite in the 60s, but fortunately items were kept and given to me by eyewitnesses.
By the way Erich, guess who Skipper is on the luftarchiv site?
Ta, thanks for the mailing to Daimler idea. I am starting to think that this bear might be a trophy from Russia, I saw it on tv the other day on a political poster for the Russian elections. it may be a coincidence , but it was the same bear walking tin the same direction. Maybe Daimler used this patern as a stencil.

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are you there already Skipper on Luftw archiv ? I usually hit it once a week but very late at night when nobody is on..........I like to be stealth.....

a great resource as long as you can understand Deutsch pretty well. have had some interesting info obtained off of it in the past and will continue to do so am sure.

E ~

wow, that's a great detective job! i'm eagerly awaiting the polar bear question!!!

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Members of the Dutch Resistance with 101st AB, Eindhoven. Operation Market Garden.

Scott

Yes the Germans couldn't help me with this current crash, but they helped me with the april 30th 1944 casualties. There are some great experten there and I gave them them some Saint André de L'Eure cemetey pics to say thank you they were delighted. My German is good enough to allow me to work without a dictionnary. I must admit I haven't been on their site since September.
Sorry I haven't had time for the pictures yet, I will post them soon.

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