The first squadrons were 300 and 301 bomber squadrons and 302 and 303 fighter squadrons. The fighter squadrons, flying the Hawker Hurricane, first saw action in the third phase of the Battle of Britain in late August 1940, quickly becoming highly effective. Polish flying skills were well-developed from the Invasion of Poland and the pilots were regarded as fearless and sometimes bordered on reckless. Their success rates were very high in comparison to the less-experienced British Commonwealth pilots.[1] 303 squadron became the most efficient RAF fighter unit at that time[2]. Many Polish pilots also flew in other RAF squadrons. In the following years, further Polish squadrons were created: 304 (bomber, then Coastal Command), 305 (bomber), 306 (fighter), 307 (night fighter), 308 (fighter), 309 (reconnaissance, then fighter), 315 (fighter), 316 (fighter), 317 (fighter), 318 (fighter-reconnaissance) and 663 (air observation/artillery spotting). The fighter squadrons initially flew Hurricanes, then Supermarine Spitfires, and eventually some were equipped with P-51 Mustangs. Night fighters used by 307 were the Boulton-Paul Defiant, Bristol Beaufighter and the de Havilland Mosquito. The bomber squadrons were initially equipped with Fairey Battles and Vickers Wellingtons, then Avro Lancasters (300 sqn), Handley Page Halifaxs and Consolidated B-24 Liberators (301 sqn) and de Havilland Mosquitos and B-25 Mitchells (305 sqn). 663 flew Auster AOP Mk Vs.

Polish Air Forces in France and Great Britain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

To you Hop

But in the terms of Britain Vs Germany and bombing cities first didnt' the germans 'accidently' bombed civillian populace in Croyden and the outskirts of london making the british retaliate on Berlin targeting german civiliians? If so dosn't that mean that the british intentionally targeted german civillians first?

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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
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No, the raid on Berlin didn't target civilians. It was aimed mainly at Tempelhof airfield, the Siemens factory in Siemenstadt, and various other small military targets in and around Berlin. The bombers were even under orders that if they couldn't find their exact target, they were to bring their bombs back, or jettison them at sea.

To be fair to the Germans, at this point they too were still trying to hit military targets in Britain. Both sides thought their bombing was more accurate than it was. Both sides knew the enemy bombing was incredibly inaccurate. That gave both sides the impression the enemy were deliberately bombing civilians.

Until 7th September both sides were doing the same thing, bombing military targets with relatively small numbers of aircraft. What changed is that the Germans then started saturation bombing London, then other British cities. They adopted widespread use of parachute mines and incendiary cannisters, neither of which could be aimed, and deployed them over British cities en masse.

The first time the British adopted similar bombing techniques was against Mannheim on 15/16 December 1940. The raid was authorised as a reprisal for Coventry. It was the first British area attack of the war, and about 120 bombers took part. By then, the Luftwaffe had killed about 20,000 British civilians.

so you are saying that without any shadow of a doubt that the germans not only started the bombings on civillians not only in the BoB but prior as well, and the british went without ever intentionally bombing civillians for reprisals until the Mannheim raid. That just makes all germans sound like barbarians very progandist if you ask me.

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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

It's true, though.

You only have to look at each escalation in bombing to see that the RAF responded to German action.

Only bombs on warships at sea at the start of the war.

First attack on German soil following attack on the Orkneys that killed a British civilian (James Isbister). The British raid was a mirror image of the German attack. The Germans bombed naval facilities in the Orkney islands, the British bombed a seaplane base on the island of Sylt.

First attacks on Germany proper on the 10/11 May, following German bombing of France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

First attacks east of the Rhine on the night of 15/16 May, following the attack on Rotterdam.

First attack on Berlin on 25/26 August, following repeated minor attacks on London.

First area attack on 15/16 December, ordered as a response to Coventry.

Every escalation in bombing until that point was carried out by Germany. Britain went on in 1942 to escalate bombing further, with 1000 bomber raids on Germany. But the RAF merely increased the scale of bombing, using methods and tactics the Germans had pioneered.

Well, the people in charge of German bombing were Goering and Hitler. They decided what was bombed, and how. And yes, I would describe them as barbarians.

Fair enough with Goering and hitler being barbarians I can see that, and Okay you win this disccusion lol

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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

As is the case on both sides. I believe there was some attempts at stopping the bombings of Germans cities since most were void of military targets but bomber Harris took Churchill's speech of 'bombing every German city' literally. In war, seems like there are no rules

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Which is funny when the Germans seeemed to not have any problems with Warsaw and Rotterdamn previously and even Belgarde in 1941.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

Exactly

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I know the Germans, by 1943, were anxious to put a stop to the bombing. But as they were on the receiving end by then, that's only natural. As JM Speight said:

But I'm not aware the allies gave any serious consideration to stopping the bombing until the last few months of the war, when it was winding down anyway.

The USAAF defined a military target as:

Richard G Davis, one of the USAF's official historians, notes:

That might sound cynical, but it's largely true. Cities are centres of manufacturing, distribution and communications. By 1943 Germany was switching as much as possible to a war economy. Cities are concentrations tens or hundreds of thousands of people. None of them could simply opt out of the war effort.

Nowhere in Germany was there a city of tens of thousands all comfortably going about pre war business. All were churning out material for the war effort as fast as possible. If a city was too small to have a tank or aircraft factory, it still made sub assemblies that went in to those tanks and aircraft and rifles and guns.

City bombing per se I still find weird that the Germans must have noticed that in Blitz it did not win the war ( except for Göring and Hitler ), and in Bombing of German cities it did not win the war for Bomber Command. Probably on both sides and times it only stiffened the resistance. And until Aug-Sept 1944 the German production figures just kept going up.

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But terror bombing worked on nagasaki and Hiroshima forcing the japanese to surrender thus winning the war.

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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

They were about to surrender anyway very soon, which is also used as an argument against the dropping of the bombs, you know? Emperor´s position was as I recall the main point when discussed about the future Japan and surrender terms.

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Sometimes you can be happy that some things went the way they did.

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These are naturally extreme possibilities but if some of them had happened instead...

Just something to think about:

1.What if the Air Ministry had ordered a new generation of biplane fighters, as they had wanted to? Planes that lacked the speed, the armament and the height to take on Hitler's Luftwaffe.

If the Air Ministry had had its way, the Luftwaffe would have been met by planes like the Tiger Moth.

2. What if Churchill's friend Professor Lindeman had had his way, and that work on an infrared detection system had replaced the development of radar?

3. What if Arthur Harris - appointed to Bomber Command at the same time Dowding was appointed to Fighter Command - had got his way, and Britain had concentrated on building bombers in 1938? Hitler's bombers would have got through.

4. What if Dowding had caved in to Churchill's demand for an extra ten squadrons of fighters for France in May 1940?

Dowding refused, and gave the War Cabinet his reasons.

The author tells us that no one spoke. No one supported him. They were all terrified of Churchill.

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Anouther Air Ministry gem that you posted before was to make the bombers wing span under 100 feet so they would fit in the hanger doors. The Short Sterling crews paid for that stupidity.

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Wouldn't they have been more like the Gladiator and Bulldog or Fury then the Tiger Moth. The Tiger Moth was not designed as a fighter.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

For research purposes The Battle of Britain - Home Page

This is the honour roll, but is part of the RAF Battle of Britain History Site. I posted it earlier this evening on the Non-British in RAF Battle of Britain thread in case it had not been shared earlier. On that thread there is quite a bit of information on the Polish Squadrons.

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a quick question, regarding this topic. If the Germans had successfully removed the RAF wouldn't they still have to worry about their large Navy before invading their country?

Who ever controls the air controls the war just look at normandy and allied air supremacy stopping the germans from moving in day light and properly reinforceing there positions. The Germans could just bomb the RN without the fear of the RAF interferring.

__________________
They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget