There are a number of problems or potential problems with using former German soldiers against the Soviets in this scenario. The above is not one of them.

Stupid me :first looking at the available information and then asking stupid questions,especially when Brndirt 1 is looking

What?

This could be true because stalin was complaining about the british not helping them and they were getting pushed back!

Tried to read the articall but it stank. This Hastings must have sat down that morning and pondered what he might write that would spin the crank of the nazifanbois. Churchill was suffering a bit from 'fatigue' by 1945. One of the several reasons Atlee replaced him that year. After retiring from the US Army Eisenhower was asked by interviewer about "the plan to fight the USSR". Ike replied that there was some talk about that from some politicians but no one took it very seriously. From that interview and other remarks by US officers like Bradley, Hodge, Devers it appears some proforma discussion was made and some staff officers assigned to make up a 'Plan' to show to the politician Ike refered to.

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I forgot my password, can I use yours?

Now that sounds reasonable c.w.

Seeing as the Nazis wouldnt exist after Germany's defeat...

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-Dustin

"Zey send zer hounds! zey to vill find only death!"

As the Wehrmacht had been fighting the Russians for the best part of 3 years and bearing in mind the Soviet reatment in places like Köenigsberg and Nemmersdorf (whatever the truth was or is) was enough to convince them to return to fight. The only problem was that Hitler had always thought that the Allies would see the error of their ways and fight the red beast but the allies had fought with them against national socialism so there would be an impression of a possible stitch up, or a fear of being used as canon practice, amongst the Wehrmacht.

Sorry perhaps that wasn't too clear but I feel that they would not trust the Allies as, in their eyes, they had been responsible from preventing the Nazis from crushing the Soviets and then to accept what the great dictator had been saying from the beginning that the Soviets were the true enemy won't just have caused problems at the time but would have sown the seeds for a greater problem in the German lands later. In order to allow the Germans to participate would have meant re armanent, and realignment and would have allowed the Nazis ,who only hid during the last days of the war, to reappear as renaissance figures for Western Europe. perhaps the whole point of war would have seemed a little pointless.

I have serious doubts as to what Germans would be available for this excursion. Even Hitler could only field third rate divisions at the end. Why would anyone do better?

No one would.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

why german why not the soviet troops the germans had caputured against their own men.

Most Soviet troops in German captivity died of starvation. The ones which had survived were liberated by the Red Army only to be sent to the Gulags for "allowing to be captured".

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Soviet troops the Germans captured were basically worthless. They were knocked around easily in Normandy and were considered third rate troops. My question is still not answered: What was left of the German Army, except "foot-and-eye" cases, old men and Hilter Jungend? I can't think of any battle worthy troops the Germans have got left; unless they want to reopen the POW pen, they would not have much to work on. Even so, they would have no equipment and possibly of low morale.

what was left of the German army ? I should say:some 6 million;were there a lot of battle worthy troops ? Idon't know What is a lot ?Were they all foot-and -aye cases,old men and Hitlerjugend ? Off course not .

Are these so called 6 million troops of proper age? or are they the 14-17 and the over 55yr old conscripts?

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

It is estimated that around 3.5 million of 5.5 million Soviet POW's in German captivity died through ill-treatment.
In regards the survivors, according to Soviet sources, they liberated 1,836,562 Soviet POW's from German captivity, of these nearly 1,000,000 were sent back to service in the Soviet Army, another 600,000 were sent to labour battalions, and only the 233,400 who were suspected of collaborating with the Germans (ie Hiwis) were sent to the gulags

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

I would think many of those deaths were of starvation. I would think anybody would know that the Germans could never feed the amount of POWs they had; it makes sense the Russians got less then Westerners. Racism strikes yet again.

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-Dustin

"Zey send zer hounds! zey to vill find only death!"

Even before the invasion the Nazi leadership had calculated that due to weaknesses in their logistics they would have to plunder the foodstuffs of the local population in the invasion areas in order to feed their troops and horses to such an extent that it would lead to mass starvation amongst the the civilian population, let alone any POW's who fell into their hands.
This didn't cause any concern as the de-population of these areas was an important part of the Nazi plans for German farmers to settle in these areas

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

I have seen on AHF much lower figures (I think 2.5 )of dead POW
About the survivors :the numbers are not plausible :the Hiwis sent to the Gulag were not POW and could not be liberated by the Soviet Army .Most of the Hiwis captured by the Soviets were shot .
Thus :who were the men sent to the Gulag ?
An other point:don't forget Stalin's infamous order of 1941 ,in which all POW were declared traitors ,thus I think all Soviet POW were candidates for the Gulag .

I do think that the Hitlerjugend and Volksturm were a minority

When you look at areas like Yugoslavia, Greece, Norway and Italy that had large occupation groups; it would seem that they would be Static with the manpower they had before.

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-Dustin

"Zey send zer hounds! zey to vill find only death!"

I believe this was also Patton's plan. If the Soviets ever invaded a once-free Europe Patton wanted to use his tanks, Britain's airforce and Germany's SS against the hordes of Soviets.

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Easily the most overpowered tank in history. Seriously - dual 280mm cannons?! It's not like the Allies had a tank with 200mm of armor!

Why only the SS, there were far more experienced, battle hardened and reliable men in the German army then the SS.

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Most of these by the end of the war were garrison troops. Troops who even the Germans in their desperate situation didn't consider fit for use on the front line, all the useful units had been withdrawn months before.

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

It is an interesting scenario: the Western Allies v. the Soviet Union and its allies in a war for Eastern Europe. The US would have had to resort to using atomic weapons against the USSR. I don't think that the West would have won a conventional or non-atomic war against the Soviets in the immediate post-war period. The article portrays Churchill as a realist when dealing with Stalin and the Soviets; and when dealing with Stalin and the Soviets, one most definitely ought to have been of a realistic cast of mind. Had the Western Allies taken Berlin and advanced further eastwards across Germany and possibly Poland and further into Czechoslovakia, it would have definitely placed Stalin and the Soviets in the position where they would have to honour the commitments that they had made to the Western Allies, especially preserving or re-instituting a free and democratic Poland. I think that there can be little doubt about this.