True. It would take ages just to get all the rubble cleaned up. Also for cities like Dresden which were completely flattened. Even by 1947 the city was still in ruins.

the population in Dresdaen was actually moved out for some time after the bombings. In Berlin the populace was not so fortunate

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E ~

SS Oberscharfuehrer Oscha, Karl Viehmann who served with the 14th Company of SS Panzer-Grenadier Regiment 23 of the 11th SS Division "Nordland." This document was typed by the office of the Oberkommando des Heeres (Army High Command) on 16 April 1945 during the Battle of Berlin. Viehmann was recommended for the Close Combat in Gold--III Stufe) as of 3 April 1945, but was required to provide proof of 15 more close combat days--Which should of been easy for this Man) that he particpiated in prior to, 1st December 1942. Viehmann is listed among the 110 or so SS members who received the III Stufe of the Nahkampfspange.

Couple of links to Unit History, SS Panzergrenadier Regiment 23 "Norge"

Axis History Factbook: 11. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division Nordland (See Holders of high awards)

When Germany attacked in the early part of the war, they used Blitzkrieg strategies - first bomb the enemy using the luftwaffe, and then using the panzer tanks and lastly followed by the infantry. Using this, they were able to surround armies and wipe them off.

1. I have heard about the aviation fuel crisis that lasted in Berlin in 1945. So, did the Luftwaffe have any role (however significant) in the Battle of Berlin?
2. Can i have some link that gives me more details of the soldiers trapped in the Halbe pocket?

Yes, can someone please tell me if the Luftwaffe had a real role to play in the battle of Berlin or the defence of Germany?

Here's a contemporary news article about the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Berlin. It sounds as though the Luftwaffe was fairly weakened by this time of the war.
The Maple Leaf - Google News Archive Search

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"Faint heart never won fair maiden", so I say "Go for it!"

Lou

Well, the Germans weren't quite few. At the Battle of Berlin they had about 500.000 men against the russians 2.500.000.

I just wanted to summon that up, as it seems that you forgot that Germany in may 1945 still had quite a chance to beat the russians at the suburbs of Berlin.

And for the Luftwaffe, they could have done a great deal too, as the russians air force were weaker than the Luftwaffe by 1945.

The Anglo-Americans wouldn't have time or planes enough, to reach Berlin.

These are some interesting comments. They appear to run counter to what is commonly accepted. Could you provide sources for these statements? I'm especially interested in learning how the Germans could still defeat the Russians in May 1945.

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"Faint heart never won fair maiden", so I say "Go for it!"

Lou

More like the Germans had some 40,000 "regulars" with some tens of thousands of Hitler youth and Volksturm. Perhaps the best they could have done was break out of the city to the west while the Soviets were still reinforcing the west area of their encirclement. Even that is open to debate.

The Luftwaffe was nothing more then a ton of personal with nothing to fly save a few dedicated aces.

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-Dustin

Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Hello 2010,

In what books or school have you gathered this, totally incorrect information?
Maybe you could forward your sources to this opinion/believe of yours?

Regards
Kruska

Now, the information is all correct.

Now, I didn't really mean that the Germans could "defeat" the russians in the entire war, I were talking about the Battle for Berlin.

They could have held the city for at least 3 months, if Hitler hadn't comitted suicide on the 30. of April. However there were no reason to do so, as the Germans would loose no matter what.

Well, it's a common fact that the Nazis had 500.000 men at Berlin in the last days.

Just to state another point: Why did any of you think that they only had some few thousands soldiers at the end of the war?

Or only two King Tigers as someone said?

Compared to the 3.000.000 soldiers Germany attacked USSR with, 500.000 ain't that much.

Germany still was able to fight some communists even at the end of the war.

Now that's strange. 40.000 wehrmacht soldiers against 2.500.000 russians, and they held the city for 12 days, inflicting severe casualties on the russians?

The math doesn't work here.

Sources please, sources if you don't mind. Especially for your first statement.
May I ask - how old are you Kid?

Kruska

You seriously cant believe that the Russians packed every single man into the streets of Berlin at the same time can you?

Hiding behind Wikipedia does not do you much good either; what Wiki forgets to tell you is that the Germans had some sizable formations before the battle but said units were decimated trying to Hold Seelow heights and the 12. Armee was stuck in the west. Followed by countless others that were cut off from Berlin. The Germans still had men but the key was they weren't in Berlin at the time of the Battle!

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-Dustin

Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

The main source is books, but the exhibition "Mythos Germania" in Berlin can also be reffered too.

I didn't use wikipedia.

Well, the source of my first statement (the one with the Germans defeating the russians at Berlin) are my own.

Now this conclusion is based off what I read, and what I know.

The others are facts.

With the 12. Armee being counted with the soldiers in Berlin, the number would reach 760.000

Well, yes I can.

If you're talking about space enough in Berlin for the 500.000 soldiers, there were plenty.

Berlin had 4.3 million citizens at that point.

If i'd also count the 12. Armee, the number would be higher.

Just to turn this around a bit, where do you have your information from?

OK, let's look at Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Just in terms of material, Germany was lost by 1945. Here is a brief excerpt to that point:
With these critical shortages, how was the weakened German army supposed to defeat the Russians in Berlin?

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"Faint heart never won fair maiden", so I say "Go for it!"

Lou

Stockpiles my good man, stockpiles.

Besides, there weren't many tanks in the Battle for Berlin, mostly soldiers.

And of course, in the long term the Nazis would loose the war, but if you only think a few months ahead, they had quite a chance to push the russians back behind the Oder River.

My statement of 40,000 comes from Seigfried Knappe's autobiography where he makes note of the fact that Berlin should have had 4 divisions inside while in reality they did have four but they were at barely half strength totaling to the number above, according to him. He said that they were expected to plug up the holes in their lines with Hitler youth and Volksturm units.

I also find it hard to believe half a million men were inside when he was in his Kubelwagon and driving into the city almost all of the defenses were completely unmanned!

You also must consider that Berlin proper only had around one million people within which was where the bulk of the battle took place.

Its easy to understand how Berlin was so unmanned when you consider the speed of the Soviet assault versus units that "only existed on paper" getting swallowed by the red tide.

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-Dustin

Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Well of course the defenses were manned! Berlin had been prepared for the soviet attack weeks before the initial combat.

The bulk of the battle took place around Pankow, a few hundred meters from the center of Berlin, The Reichskanzlei.

What I was getting at was even an officer was appalled by the lack of soldiers in city.

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-Dustin

Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Well, when did he drive trough the city?

He arrived in Berlin on the 23rd, the Russian attack was later on during the night.

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-Dustin

Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Well, where then?

Besides the battle started at the 20th of April.