Doesn't everyone use the same basic CF? All i say to that conspiracy is
The only thing that surprises me most is that Knight didn't bring it up!

__________________
Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill

Actually C4 is a common military explosive around the world. A lot of Western/Westernised countries use it. A bit like Semtex was in the old Eastern Block.

However, like everything else, when you break it down under analysis you can actually tell where it was made (and sometimes when) just by minor differences in the make-up. Moisture content, stuff like that.

A bit like buying a can of beans from the same manufacturer once a week. If you broke the beans/sauce down you could tell which week the can was produced in just by the minor variances although they would probably taste the same. Wonders of modern science.

And if I recall right, the 1968 Tet Offensive was the Viet Cong's biggest full scale attack. That's when they invaded the streets of Saigon and other provvincial cities. The US government got a major shock and (incorrectly) the western media saw it as a major victory for the VC. In actual fact, the VC were mauled so badly by US and South Vietnamese forces during the attack and following few days, they never actually recovered fully right up until the fall of the South. A lot of their operations were taken over by North Vietnamese regulars.

You'll all have seen the camera footage of the VC being shot in the head, right in full view of the media. He was dressed as an ordinary civilian and you see his body fall to the street and blood coming from the wound. That was the '68 Tet Offensive.

The guy who shot him was a senior South Vietnamese officer. He had been at the US Embassy when he was told that the VC had attacked his home. When he and his men arrived, they found that the VC had butchered his wife, his children and his Sister in Law. The VC who was shot was captured in the house.... I would have done the same.

I would do the same right now if I was in Bali and one of those (Blank, Blank, Blank) terrorists was standing in front of me.

War is nasty, violent and vicious. You expect to be killed in war. You don't expect to be killed when you're having a drink and a dance in a nightclub. And you're not at war.

_______________

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
- Plato (427-347 B.C.)

Knight-what's with flying the flag upside-down?

__________________
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

Are you really sure about this story? AFAIK, the man shooting the handcuffed Vietcong with the plaid shirt during the Tet-offensive Feb. 1968 was the South Vietnamese Birgadier General Nguyen Ngoc Loan.

The idea that Loan's wife was killed by this particular Vietcong or even at all is rubbish. But it seem true that the Vietcong killed or injured some of Loan's men.

Oriana Fallaci interviewed the injured Loan in May 1968. His wife and father were sitting next to him.

Fallaci's book "Nothing and Amen" deals in-depth with this time period, the incident and the person of General Loan. Very recommended reading.

Cheers,

__________________
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

The most succesful methods of stopping, preventing and eliminating terrorist dangers weren't military at all.

Any cent put into the current military complex to buy more superweapons is a waste. The money should be used instead to finance WORKING anti-terror-"weapons" like effective Intelligence and security services and systems, the policemen around the corner, long-termed measurements like eliminating immanent symphathies for terrorist acts among those "have-nots", or the desire for taking revenge.

If I'd be living in the ME and a F-16 is dropping a bomb on my house, killing my family, I'd know what to do next. Hate, unjustice, lack of education and povery are the best fertilizers for terrorism.

Cheers,

__________________
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

Israel has the most effective method by far; it's called the Mossad. Especially in the Middle East, the Mossad has successfully infiltrated every significant military organization. Israel knows what's going to happen weeks before it actually does (and sometimes, they can even make it happen.)
Australia?
First of all, Bush and Blair look quite the fools, standing alone against the unseen forces of Evil. Getting another country to cooperate would have made things look a lot better. The problem with Australia was that the public was almost universally opposed to Bush's War on Terror. Finally, after much arm twisting, their government half-heartedly threw in their support. It was shortly after this that the bombing occurred. Now... you can go either way with this. The true believers will maintain that the Muslim extremists decided to lash out immediately at the War On Terror's newest ally. The conspiracy crowd says that the explosion was used to prove to the doubtful Australian population that the International Terror Network actually does exist and is targeting all member of "The Alliance."
Once again, we have a huge explosion for which no one takes credit for. Add it to the growing list: 9-11, OKC bombing, The Cole, The London "Mega-Bombs..." Generally, terrorists can't wait to take credit for attacks against their enemies. I mean, back in the good-old-days, you couldn't find the culprit because everyone would take credit for the attack.
I'm still reading about the Bali blast.

Knight

Al Quaeda have never phoned up and claimed credit for their attacks: they don't need to. Their aim is to terrorise Westerners. You don't need to say who you are in order to do this. The bomber we had in London who blew up the Admiral Duncan never claimed his successes either, all he wanted to do was to terrorise Blacks, Asians and Gays. The irony was he managed to kill a young married couple and their best man instead.

Jumbo

__________________
"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

Jumbo, I was going to mention this, but I wasn't sure. Have Al-Quaeda ever claimed responsibility for one of their attacks? Other than the non-commital ramblings of Bin-Laden and Al-Zawahiri, I can't think of an instance where they did... Especially not in the fashion of other, past terrorist groups- the immediate phone call following the attack.

__________________
Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Crazy

No I don't think they have, particularly because they tend to work through proxies. Also it allows the waters to be muddied by blaming the Israelis, The CIA or our old friend Woodrow Wilson...

Jumbo

__________________
"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

i think i would believe the people from these forums who are actually from Australia to get a good indication of Australia's support for the war on terror. How was it before Bali?

__________________
Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill

Come on, Ron- Knight clearly knows more about how the Australians feel than anyone actually from Australia. What are you thinking?


Jumbo, that's the impression I had. I wonder though- you might know this one- we have seen many "interviews" with Bin Laden etc. that show up on Al-Jazeera. What kinds of claims have they made in those interviews? I think I remember Bin Laden kind of suggesting that he was in fact responsible, but has there ever been any outright claims of responsibility?

And just wait- you gents may think I'm Crazy, but before long we'll all have a new "pledge of allegiance"- allegiance to the great undying Woodrow and his army of illiterate right wing zombies.

OK, maybe I am Crazy.

__________________
Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Jumbo:

.
uhhh... yes... you do, really.
this would really mark a new era in terrorism: the crimes of the anonymous bombers.
I do not assume Al Quiada is to blame every time a big bomb goes off: call me a conspiracy theorist, but, I'd just like to see a little evidence, or else, someone taking responsibility for the attack.
I mean... were they behind the London bombs?
Some people are claiming they were responsible for the OKC Bombing for God's sake.
If you're not looking for any evidence, then, you can really take this as far as you want.
.

Hi Ryan, VC did fight in Ia Drang--I have a good friend who served there and was in that battle--Gary Hatley. He captured a Russian Tokerov off the VC that he killed--along with an AK-47--both guns he still has. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Knight--ill ask again since I never recieved a reply to another question I asked you. Whats the purpose? Just wondering? Carl. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 18 October 2002, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Carl:

Years ago, this image stood for the Constitutuion, the Bill of Rights, The Declaration of Independence, and all the other ideas, laws, and documents which defined the USA.
These days, the image has come to mean an unquestioning belief in the current political administration.

Years ago, this image was a symbol of distress, although it is rarely used so today. In consideration of the flag's current purpose: to identify political "believers," the inverted flag stands for the American who does not believe everything put out by the current political administration. In fact, I don't believe anything the politicians have to say (I know I'm really shocking everybody here.)
I believe that today's politicians are thoroughly corrupt and serve no one's interests but their own and the forces of the wealthy and powerful.
That's the general idea...

Thank you for the detailed reply. I hope you were not offended by my inquiry here or on the other posting I made. I made another posting to Ryan when he asked the same question and I had not heard from you on it yet. I forget what topic that was in though.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Carl: Ask away. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Obviously, you are only speaking for yourself here...
Personally, I don't identify the American flag with any specific administration or politician.
Remove the "Years ago" part... that's the identification I make.

In my opinion, you're right- politicians are generally out to serve themselves. However, because they are elected, and theoretically they would like to be re-elected or at least remain in office, they are forced to serve their constituents. In some cases, they do a great job- and consequently usually get re-elected. In other cases, they really blow it- Rep. Traficante being the perfect example (but that godawful thing on his head should have sealed his fate long before!).
I'd say the majority of politicians are in the middle- serving the people as much as they have to, maybe more, while serving themselves as well.

__________________
Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Hi Knight--you already answered my question satisfactorily on another posting--many thanks.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

"Police believe the bomb that destroyed the Sari did not contain the plastic explosive C4, as previously thought, but was comprised almost entirely of ammonium nitrate." - The Australian, 10-22-02

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E2702,00.html

Nitrate used in Indonesian bomb

22oct02

A HUGE fertiliser bomb, similar in size to the one used by Timothy McVeigh in the Oklahoma City bombing, is believed responsible for the Sari Club bombing.

Australian law enforcement sources have confirmed the bomb that destroyed the Sari Club consisted of between 50kg and 150kg of ammonium nitrate, the material McVeigh used to kill 168 people in 1995. The sources said the Bali bomb was "a similar size" to the Oklahoma device.
Australian Federal Police chief Mick Keelty said yesterday that two bombs, rather than three, were involved in the October 12 attack that killed 188 people.

"The blast that they thought was a third blast now appears to be a vehicle parked in the vicinity of Paddy's Tavern that had TNT residue on it, and the vehicle has in fact been blown . . . about 30 metres away from the Sari Club and appeared to have been blocking traffic," Mr Keelty said in Canberra.

Police believe the bomb that destroyed the Sari did not contain the plastic explosive C4, as previously thought, but was comprised almost entirely of ammonium nitrate.

Police confirmed the bomb planted in Paddy's, which blew up before the Sari device, was made of TNT – the same explosive used to blow a hole in the road outside the US consulate in Denpasar 15 minutes earlier.

[ 23 October 2002, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: Crapgame ]

__________________
This information has been posted for non-commercial, educational, and research purposes.
- - - -
"The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here." - Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 19, 1863
- - - -
"The past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past." - William Faulkner

This reminds me of a comment made by British PM Tony Blair in which he said that Al Qaeda was " a defunct organisation", and " incapable of launching anymore attacks".....put his foor right in it.....

__________________
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

I have done a little reading on ammoniun nitrate bombs, and, they're not as easy to make as you might think. First, and most importantly, you have to extract the pure ammonium nitrate from the fertilizer. Skip this step, and you're not going to take down 1/3 of the Murrah Bldg, that's for sure. If you're talking about a van-load of the stuff, this is quite a project, and in such a case, using another type of explosive might be more realistic.

with a bit of reluctance I post this......there has been several bombs made here using the lawn/tree fertilizer Urea which is almost pure nitrogen in form. completely water soluable. the availabilty of the material is quite wide-spread.

E

[ 23 October 2002, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Knight Templar ]