Hello Everyone,

I'm sure you have heard about the bombing in Bali.

180 Killed 110 wounded. This number porbably will rise.

1 person from NZ is dead and 8 are wounded.

The hardest hit has been Australia, 14 dead, and many wounded. This Number will also probably rise as it is thought 75% of the unidentifyed bodies are of Australians, I heard that they are laying 100s of bodies out in the street.

Over 200 Australians and 190 New Zealanders are still missing, let us hope these people are found alive and well.

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David

When you go home
Tell them of us, and say
For your tomorrow
We gave our today.

Very saddened to hear all this...

My prayers and best wishes are with the killed, injured and their families...

I think my best friend's honeymoon to Bali next week is off the cards now...

[ 14 October 2002, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

(banner by Otto)
www.basher82.nl

No words can describe the feelings among ordinary Australians today. This disgusting attack on innocent holidaymakers has shocked us all. It has brought back memories of 9/11, and made it all too clear that the world is no longer a safe place for anyone.

Many of the people I talked to today have been to Bali and to those nightclubs that were destroyed. Some were even planning holidays there for Christmas.

I know that your thoughts and feelings will be with us Australians in this tragedy, but we can't forget the other foreign nationals that were there too. Many of them young Europeans travelling through Asia.

To anyone who has been affected by this act, I send my heartfelt sympathy and deepest sorrow.

Despicable and absolutely shocking. Holidaymakers become the target of a sickening attack.
My deepest sympathies to all concerned, not just the Australians-this is truly a very upsetting time.
My hopes and prayers go out to all the families who have been affected by this heinous attack...

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"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

Sorry for the losses-- ESPECIALLY for the Australians and New Zealanders what purpose does this cowardly act supposedly had to happen for?

I know at least two Americans are dead as well as others unaccounted for, but I really do feel sorry for our friends from Down Under and also our Kiwi friends.

I hope that somehow-- PROPER Justice is served on those responsible for this new atrocity.

IF it DOES turn out to be terrorists of middleeastern descent, I hope that Australia and New Zealand, buries them in pigskin. If not someone of middleeastern descent--I hope your goverments feed their remain to sharks.

I would like to know just what the heck that Kiwis and Aussies have done to these A******S, (whomever they may be) to warrent this atrocity?

I bet--not a damn thing--just like what happened to us here on 9-11.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Even if I don't know what happened exactly I am sorry to know that people have died for no reason and that is a real shame. Sorry.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Most pictures from the hospitals in Australia are to graphic to show in the media here. The entire front page of todays News Papers were in black and white, they couldn't show it in color.

Carl, supposedly it is an attack on Australias support of America.

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David

When you go home
Tell them of us, and say
For your tomorrow
We gave our today.

I'm shocked too. I've been to Bali twice and some friends of mine have just come back from there. Its such a beautiful place, and to see it shattered like this...

Is there a pattern emerging here? Djerba and Bali were both primary tourist centres of two Islamic countries. What next? Oman? Casablanca?

It's getting too easy to jump to conclusion. I won't condemn anyone until proven guilty.

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„Solange man nicht mit dem Kopf unterm Arm rumläuft geht es doch noch!" Erwin Rommel

Now-Its being linked to Al-Qaeda, which at the moment I can't believe because, honestly-where is the proof-I could believe it-but proof.....

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"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

I think we have 33 British unaccounted for. Indonesia was bound to be a hotbed, especially with Jammiyat Islam being so active in the region.

If this is what we are facing over the next decade or so we really have to call into question what the hell we are doing to create this degree of hatred.

Jumbo

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"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

Well since the UK is on friendly terms with the US, and the US is called the great satan.....I think you see my point.....

E

Breaking news.
From the BBC:
.
Investigaters are beginning to say that this was a sophisticated device.
Kindly submitted,
The Knight

Taiwan News is breaking a story that the Taiwanese Government was warned about the bombing by American intelligence. They were also instructed noy to release the information.
I don't know why Taiwan would want to make up a story such as this...

From www.etaiwannews.com:
.
Taken from Taiwan News:
http://www.etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/20...1034643430.htm

David, I wouldnt be surprised if that was the case. If it is, then I guess Australia will be standing much more with us than ever before.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I wish New Zealand was still an Ally of America...

Jumbo, I agree that this is going to keep happening for a long time yet...

I don't think we are to blame.

What ever way you look at it, what did those young people (could have been me in a few years time) dancing at the night club have to do with it?

These people (asuming Al Qaeda) have made millions out of America, the only thing they have against the was is their Extremist Religon. These people do not even have the guts to attack military targets, I do not feel for them.

So far NZ has sent a C - 130, which has broken down (Basicly sums up our defence force ), 2 policemen and a box of medical supplies. We are so hopless.

We have 4 dead (only one confirmed).

What has the world come to...

__________________
David

When you go home
Tell them of us, and say
For your tomorrow
We gave our today.

Kiwi

You are all alone in the middle of a big Ocean - this is your national defence policy as far as I can make out.

Apparently a retired Indonesian Air Force Officer has admitted to making the Bomb, whilst the C4 matches that used on the Cole. It looks like Al Quaeda is supplying and supporting local organisations like JI with more than just advice. Trouble is Indonesia is a bloody tinder-box, any crack down could set the whole place alight.

Jumbo

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"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

Latest news on the Bali bombing is that a ex Indonesian airforce officer helped build the bomb.

Also, there is a story in the international press that states the explosives (confirmed as C-4) were purchased from the Indonesian Army by Muslim extremists using money supplied by a Saudi "businessman".

The Indonesian authorities have interviewed about 50 people and are holding 2, for further questioning.

The main suspects are the Jemaah Islamiyah extremists, 15 of which were arrested in Singapore some time ago, who were found with a hit list of US and Australian targets in Singapore, including the Australian embassy. Several of these men were trained by al-Quaida.

The Indonesian Defence Minister has (finally) admitted that Indonesian extremists do have operational links with al-Quaida. Something the international intelligence agencies have known for some time.

The problem the Indonesians have is that the leader of the Jemaah Islamiyah receives support from the Deputy President of Indonesia (!) And, Indonesia has the highest Muslim population outside of the Middle East, and no one wants to upset the applecart by doing anything that could be seen as anti-Muslim, which would play into the hands of the extremists.

Besides, certain senior Army officers directly support extremist Muslim groups. There is another group who have systematically assassinated Christians (over 200 in the last few years) on one of the other Indonesian islands and they regularly receive arms and money from these Indonesian Army officers.

Apart from the theory that Australians were targeted due to their support of the US anti-terrorist campaign, another theory is that we were targeted because of our intervention in East Timor, which upset quite a few Indonesian Army people who were backing the local East Timor Indonesian rebels. When we moved in all that fell apart and several senior officers were accused of aiding in the murder of innocent East Timorese.

Unfortunately, it will not surprise me if the real people responsible for this digusting act are never caught. Politicians in Indonesia walk a very narrow tight rope. Quite a few local politicians tend to just "disappear" come election time.....

You know--it doesnt amaze me at all, that these jerkoffs, cant stand up and be "real men" and be like soldiers--instead they do it the cowardly backstabbing throat-cutting sneaky way.

At least the Viet Cong--also stood up in battle.

[ 16 October 2002, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

The bombing in Bali was not against just Australia it was simply against the "west" Bali is a significant tourist attraction for westerners.
And since these terrorists are fighting the west and this place is in the highest populated muslin country...thus is why they bombed it.
And now that people are cancelling out going there...it looks like they are getting what they wanted...but hey...i wouldn't go if i planned a trip there...these terrorists are retarded...for the tourist industry is big to the indonesian economy. So thus this will have a negative effect on the government too Go fig.

On a side note...it's funny how much many people in the oil rich areas of the middle east hate westerners. Of course if they succeded in their isolation from west where would those countries be without their biggest customers for their primary source of money. I would think hurting pretty bad! Imgine what will happen when the west invents alternative fuels and they start killing the oil market for the west...imagine what that will cause in the middle east!

AND another side note [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I have no qualms with Islam in the US but it's disturbing the way Islam is taught in some areas of other countries.
I forget his name, was it Jerry Fallwell? He made a dumb comment that Mohammad was a terrorist...so thus some Islamic cleric...not only denounced the comment but also preached that he should be killed! Now how crazy is a religion that preaches murder to it's followers! Imagine if Priests instructed it's followers to kill all pro-choice people!! How crazy does that sound! The way Islam is taught sometimes...scary

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Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill

Guerilla warfare. Terrorism. It's not unfair per se, it's just unfair to us. You can't fight the enemy by complaining about his methods. You have to analyze his methods, find a useful counter-strategy, translate it into proper tactics and act accordingly.

Right now terrorism or low-tech guerilla warfare has an undeniable tactical advantage. Thirteen suicide fundamentalists caused a major economical and moral blow to the entire Western world. 9/11 was a BIG success to the enemy, no doubt.

B-52s, fuel bombs, tank divisions, mach 2 fighters are are all useless crap in the war against terrorism. Guess the terrorists have not even a tactical, but also a strategic advantage right now. We'll have to change that and find appropiate "weapons" to fight the war against terrorism.

Cheers,

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"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

Sadly, you're probably right.

The effective methods seem to be those used by the SAS in Northern Ireland and the Israelis following the Munich Olympics massacre.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Carl, di the Viet Kong show themselves in battle? I don't think so... Bamboo traps and hidden snipers is not exactly showing themselves in battle...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Right. Vietnam.
It's much more "manly" to pulverise them with B-52s, napalm, and agent orange.
Jungle fighting is always the same: it requires a lot of close combat and hand-to-hand fighting.