Saddam is going to be smashed for sure! I have just watched the image of an African-American US soldier who was clearly injured and was shot in the head and left there in the street. That's a WAR CRIME without doubt! I think Saddam, if was innocent at some time now he is deserving his punishment!!!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Gen, firstly how do you know he was a prisoner? Did it show him being shot? You are assuming that allied soldiers do no shoot prisoners ever, they do from time to time, particularly if they are injured, it just doesn't gets out much. As for Sadam getting punished, I very much doubt he gave the order to shoot that prisoner so if he once was innocent, he probably still is (though frankly I dont think he ever was totally innocent, then again who is?). Have you seen the film of the US prisoners? They look ok, not badly beaten up or anything, maybe filming them is against the Geneva convention (though it is interesting that they are talking to the Iraqis and giving personal information rather than name, rank and serial number) but frankly I have seen pleanty of footage of Iraqi prisoners so it all seems fair to me.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Indeed, Stefan. Hussein didn't order to shoot that individual soldier. But the signs were clear: the lorry's door was open and full of blood. Then this soldiers is lying some metres away with a clear shot in the head, a coupe de grâce... They're just defending their country against this agression, but that's not the way to do it.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

It is an outrage really. Nobody can confirm what happened to the man who was shot by his vehicle. He might have died defending the vehicle, but I think most military commanders probably reckon that the soldier was shot out of hand after being captured.
Considering that US and British troops have treated the Iraqi POWs with great care and the Iraqis go around parading the American POWs on Internation Television is just not right. However, in the 1st Gulf war an RAF pilot was filmed in an Iraqi prison. That sparked outrage but let the family on that pilot know that he was alive and well.

Jet

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And when he gets to heaven
To Saint Peter he will tell
One more soldier reporting sir
I have served my time in hell

Fair enough, I havent seen the footage of that, thats all. Sickening

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

If we just saw a dead soldier who was being shot in the head, then we off cours don't know if its murder of a POW or someone who died in a battle.

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Evidently the maintenace crew drove down the wrong road and got lost. A seperate symphatizing cell to Saddam captured 12 including 1 woman. Brutalized at least 7 with shots to the gut and to the head and then stripped several of them. One Iraqui on film picked up one of the dead soldiers with a smile on the Iraqui's face and then dropped him to the floor. The other solders were interviewed for Iraqui TV and asked the familiar questions......a search and rescue team has been notified and are in the works. If DF is involved the Iraqui's will die a painful death.....in Nam we used to cut the ears off, and sometimes break a man in half. I can only imagine now what is going to happen to any Rebulican Guard trying to surrender in front of Baghadad the next two days.

Maybe they are trying the Vietnamese method used in the Indo-China War, especially against French Mobile Groupe 100 in 1954, when Viet Minh Commander on the spot, Lt. Nguyen Huu An, said "Kill all they send, and they will send no more"

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"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

I guess tha Iraq´s try to build up the anti-war movement in the US with this, but I could feel as well that instaed people get angry about this,as the Iraq´s show that they are not very nice to the US POW´s.

We´ll see but the Iraq´s have not used the POW situation in their favor. The footage was, I think, as well seen as criminal evidence towards POW´s by the UN (?).

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dp, sorry

[ 24. March 2003, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: AndyW ]

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"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

Reality check:

A dead U.S. lying on the ground, MAYBE a headshot...if this is a clear proof for anybody out there that Iraq soldiers are killing POW's, then war proüpaganda did a very good job on you.

One captured U.S. soldier said on TV that they where engaged in a firefight.

I urge you all to watch the full TV coverage (if you're located in the U.S./GB you need to check the web) before makin' wild and totally unfounded speculations or calling to commit atrocities in revenge to something wthat didn't happen.

Cheers,

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"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

just like I said before.

First know all the objectif facts before you make a judgement.

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Showing POW's on TV is prohibited by the Geneva Convention.

Personally I wouldn't consider it a grave violation (compared to let's say tortureing POWs or denying them the POW status at all), even more as the U.S. TV showed closeups of Iraqi POW's a day earlier, maybe causing a similar Iraqi reaction.

(sidenote: A British defense offical asked on SkyNet about the hypocricy in crying "foul" if Iraq TV shows U.S. POW's compared to U.S. TV showing Iraq POWs one day earlier was hilarious: The Iraq soldiers surrendered voluntarily, so it's OK show them, but the U.S. soldiers didn't. so it's violating the Geneva Convention)

Cheers,

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"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

Yes that is also a very interesting point.

If Iraqi soldiers surrender, they do this voluntarily. On the other hand if US and/or Brittish soldiers surrender, than they don't do this voluntarily.

And the reply of Bush who is saying that this is an act of crime against POW's. I think this war is also a crime.

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Reality check:

A dead U.S. lying on the ground, MAYBE a headshot...if this is a clear proof for anybody out there that Iraq soldiers are killing POW's, then war proüpaganda did a very good job on you.

One captured U.S. soldier said on TV that they where engaged in a firefight.

I urge you all to watch the full TV coverage (if you're located in the U.S./GB you need to check the web) before makin' wild and totally unfounded speculations or calling to commit atrocities in revenge to something wthat didn't happen.

Cheers, </font>[/quote]Andy, I agree witht the gist of your post, but even the UK reporters in the field are now questioning and in some cases being openly sarcastic on their reports, although to studio bound SKY news staff youd think it was indeed a game being played, this in contrast to the Sky News journalist in Baghdad who seems to be openly critical of what is going on.

Even the Sky News military advisor Tusla I think his name is, is doing his best to hold the studio journos in check with an occasional reality check reminding them this is a war and not all is as we are being told.

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

Yeah, that is probably a good idea. I must agree with the people pointing out the absurdity at immideately taking those pictures as proof of shooting POWs.



Let's see, white flag, dead Iraqis...hmmm...by the same logic...

[ 24. March 2003, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: Heartland ]

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"Nervous wait for the whistle to blow
Rush of blood and over we go..."
- Iron Maiden, "Paschendale"

I was thinking about it just now, whilst I don't agree with mistreatment of prisoners, how can the USA demand that Iraq stands by international Law when the USA has not and more to the point, how can they demand US prisoners be treated well when they do not afford the men at guantanamo bay any protection according to the rules of war or civilian law, they should be treated just as well as any troops captured.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

1. If you look at the photo, those are not American soldiers.

2. The story from what I read was that they were surrendering and then started to fire. They were attempting a trick.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

My understanding is that those are not POWs and do not have the protection of the Geneva Convention. They are captured terrorists and are treated much better than those caught by Al Qaida.

Now I do agree that we ourselves are complaining about filming the dead yet we are doing it ourselves. So I do agree with some things you are pointing out. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

If the POW's on Guantanamo Bay are well treated, like real POW's, than the US can start accusing other countries for not acting like the Geneva Convention.

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It seems that the propaganda forces are busy working their magic to show the Herioc Allied troops and the evil Iraqi troops who generally seem to be reported as regime security troops rather than regular troops. I dont think that they have shot them but then by the same token I would not be surprised to find out if they had!!! The problem is I find it harder to believe anything shown on the news and become increasingly skeptical of what our governments are telling us.

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"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

[quote]Originally posted by AndyW:

Quote:

Originally posted by General der One captured U.S. soldier said on TV that they where engaged in a firefight. I urge you all to watch the full TV coverage (if you're located in the U.S./GB you need to check the web Cheers,

Andy, there are many news services in the UK, and many just like in the mainland of Europe have access to satellite news services too.

There are quite a few news services here such as Channel 4 and BBC newsnight that showed the story in full, including the fact one of the prisoners stating himself that he shot at people shooting at him...he was obviously involved in a firefight.

Dont think the whole story is being censored or propoganda...ised..just because its British and we are involved in the fighting...Most reports from British Jounralists in the field tonight and yesterday started their reports with the words along the lines the military are saying this, but I am seeing differently..OK we will not see the whole picture, not a chance, but in the UK news there are many stories contradictory to the Military and political briefings,and the British correspondents on the ground with the troops are being quick to point out the problems being encountered....Even saw Nbc reporter in Kuwait rubbishing patriot missile system and the view Kuwaitis have of the protection it is supposedly giving them. Im not there so I cant judge for any impartiality or truth, but seems most reporters on the ground from the UK are not happy to just back up the politicians and military command stories...Then we have Sky News...and yes the Iraqis are giving us flowers and sweets...I think not.

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.