Greetings -

Going along with the current thread of have ( had ) you yourself ever served in the military, here's yet another one for you.

Not Allied, because a lot of us probably have had, but concerning the other side of front, the Axis, or more pointedly, the German side of things, did you have relatives who served, and where? I'll begin.

Mother's side -

1.) Maternal Grandfather - Hans Schmuck - German Army, Eastern front.
2.) Great Uncle - Hermann Schmuck - German Army, Norway.
3.) Great Uncle - Georg Winkelmann - German Luftwaffe, Eastern front
4.) Great Uncle - Wilhelm Winkelmann - Volksturm, Eastern Front
5.) Great Uncle - Karl Winkelmann - German Army, Eastern front, KIA, Battle for the Seelow Heights.
6.) Second Cousin - Adolf Dwenger - German Luftwaffe, France, Eastern front.
7.) Distant Relation Of Some Sort - Ernst Schmuck-Barkmann, Waffen SS, France, Eastern Front, Western Front

Anyone else wish to chime in?

Be good to each other.

Bill

[ 19. June 2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Bill Smith ]

After posting, I considered that I should clarify the thread after having listed RKT Ernst Schmuck-Barkmann.

Back in the 1990's, I was fortunate enough to have been able to contact the man, and in his first letter, he informed me that he found it quite interesting that my grandfather's family name was Schmuck as this is not a common name apparently in Germany or Austria. He also stated that being that it is, that Herr Schmuck-Barkmann was born in the German state of Schleswig-Holstein, as was my own grandfather, and that he had a cousin named Hans Schmuck, might we be ( remotely ) related?

In continuing the correspondence for awhile, and having sent off the family lineage to Herr Schmuck-Barkmann, I received in turn a brief letter from him commenting that it was very possible, and likely that my grandfather was one in the same, this cousin. He has therefore been included here as well.

Bill

[ 19. June 2003, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: Bill Smith ]

very cool Bill !

I will post soon in some details the several members that fought for the Heer and Luftwaffe.......now to go dig it out....

~E

Great info Bill--and we have something in common with not only Remy Schrijnen but also Ernst Barkmann [img]smile.gif[/img]

My father was a Gunner in a B-17 Bomber with the 8th Airforce. Participated in over 25 missions in Europe and most notably over Wilhelmshaven, Bremerhaven, and I think Hamburg. He was a Sergeant.

My Uncle (dad's Brother) was in the 80th Army Inf Div under Gen Simon Bolivar Buckner. His worst experiances was in the fighting on Okinawa. He was one of only two original members of his Company to walk off Okinawa when the fighting ended.

My Uncle (my moms Brother) served as an officer in the Navy--I don't know his rank or any details where he served except it was in the Pacific.

My Grandfather (Mom's dad) was in the Merchant Marine and was Captain of the ship SS Fort Lee--which was sunk by U 181 under the command of Kapitan zur See Kurt Freiwald. U 181 was very famous under the command of Kapitanleutnant Wolfgang Luth. This sinking happened somewhere in the north atlantic on Nov 2 1944 at near midnight and during a storm.

Cordell Hull (Secretary of State(?) in ww2--he is a relative on my mothers side of the family.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Hi Carl -

Hey, that's great concerning your family lineage during World War II! You've beat me to the punch. My next thread was going to be Allied force relations next, unless that is, someone beats me to it, and starts it ahead of me.

Now, concerning the German side of things Carl, did you have relatives serve in the Wehrmacht?

Bill

Not exactly relatives but I had (they are both dead now) two adopted aunts who fled Hannover and Bremen to excape the holocaust, ok, so not exactly military either but still related.

__________________
There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Hi Bill--sorry about that--I just noticed that I had mis-read your topic.

Unfortunately--nada--I didn't or to the best of my knowledge--I had no relative serving under German arms in WK2. [img]graemlins/rk.gif[/img]

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

here is a tad on two relatives out of 5 that served for Deutschland.

Unteroffizier Siegfried Baer, Flugzeugführer in 5./JG 301, flying Fw 190A-9 weiße 2, 3 missions with JG 301, born in Frankfurt on der Oder.
Shot down and killed with P-51's near Wülfinghausen and buried by monastery monks in the Friedhof Holtensen. I have several pics of this grave marker and it is one of the most unique and well kept grave-sites I have seen. Hopefull that within 5 years my familie will be able to come together and share his memory over this site.

Hauptmann Hans Baer, Gruppenkommandeur/Flugzeugführer of II./NJG 5. first flew with NJG 3 and flying Do 217's then Bf 110G-4's. Born October 29, 1915 in Metz. last place of residence was Speyer. Father was Otto Baer.

12 victories......

Hans was killed in an accident while flying Bf 110G-4 C9+AC with the left engine exploding and the a/c at low altitude, at Garwitz close to Parchim airfield on December 20, 1943 at 19.15 hours. He is buried at Friedhof Speyer.

~E

Sorry for those two losses Erich. [img]graemlins/rk.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rk.gif[/img]

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

My grandfather on my father's side, staff, infantry lieutenant colonel (also sniper) Gottfried von Hammerstein und Hartmann in the German Army (1936-1945), he served:

As a military liaison, observer and translator in Spain, late 1937.
As personal secretary and adjutant to field marshal Fedor von Bock, 1938.
As infantry-platoon commander, Poland 1939 and France 1940.
As translator, adjutant and liaison to field marshal Friedrich Paulus in his journey to North Africa and vist to field marshal Erwin Rommel in 1941.
As infantry-battallion commander, Russia 1941-1944.
As infantry-armoured liaison in Italy, late 1944.
As regimental commander, Berlin 1945.

My grandmother from my father's side, She was a Hauptgruppenführerin in the Luftwaffehelferinnenschaft (1944-1945), I think. I am messed up with the information.

Also, many others in my father's side served in the German military, specially Army and Navy.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Fried can U tell us what your Opa translated ? documents I suppose ? also if U can find info on the rest of the familie I would be most interested.....

thanks Carl, two of the familie I will never get to know. As Siegfried's home familie is long gone someone seems to care enough for his grave as it is well kept in the several photos that I have. almost out of place though as there are plenty of concrete "modern" day grave markers around it. His big solid wooden cross stands out starkly against the cold grey markers. right above the center is a geramn helmet with a set of oak leaves with acorns right below it, then under that his name and date of birth and death of 26.11.1944

~E

Im glad that someone is looking out for his resting place. Around here and in Kingsville--it really angers me to see tall grass--weeds and trash blowing about in cemetary's--let alone--unkempt graves. [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

yes indeed ! I am very thankful and U guessed it friend, down here in GP it is the same thing, old grave-sites and markers vandelized by punks, and weeds grown a mile high.
it was out of almost sheer luck though I don't beleive in that / I was in correspondance with a German chap and helped him with some familie correspondance as he had a relative flying in the Luftwaffe with some details I had stashed away and I brought up where he lived. He was only 100 miles away and was actually going to go through the countryside anyway up to Hannover with his girl friend. This gets wild as he told me in his note with the 8 or so pics they deliberately went through the beautiful little village of Holtensen on a foggy day of 26 November the date of my cousins demise. They found the Friedhof without problem as it was clearly marked and could tell it was his since it was so different and the only cross (wooden) in the graveyard. As I was telling Bill S. in a private his gravesite marker has been photod for a German publication some years ago.
This brings up something else and I don't wish to get morbid but I have a good German/research friend, Werner Farwick who has been id'ing and photographing hundreds of deceased Luftwaffe [img]graemlins/rk.gif[/img] winners graves and soon he will have these in a published book. IOn fact we were honoured with about 12 of them for our former web-site including two very special one's for our upcoming volumes on Moskito-jagd.

~E

Yeah--very sad state of affairs. The cemetary's have work crews who are supposed to keel it clean and attractive but yet--i've also seen many stones lying at angles or flat on the ground--and for many many years too. In all that time--they have zero excuse for not uprighting the stone--unless they are afraid of a lawsuit?

I don't think it morbid for someone to collect RKT gravesite pics--in fact--it would be nice to see what is left to remember them by.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

well there maybe a surprise or two next week on this thread........

It'll gimme somehting to look forward to--just like when watching The Man Show--I look forward to the women jumping on trampolines which is at the end of the show.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Yes, some documents indeed. But most of the time he actually translated conversation between German and foreign officers. He spoke Italian and Spanish. [img]smile.gif[/img]

And I will research about my family. I am not sure...

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Which brings up good reason for me, provided I decide to go this route, to have my mortal remains laid to rest in a National Veterans Cemetary nearby that is maintained and cared for by the Federal government. At least my cremated remains will be taken care of as well as my wife's.

I can't say the same care is always provided for by private cemetaries.

Bill

I don't know if there are any Vets Cemetary's near here but--one of the local news stations just did a report on the cemetary in Robstown (A smallish town just about 10 or so miles down the road from where I live) nad their cemetary is absolutely deplorable.

I don't know if it's just that they no longer care--or if it is laziness--or if its because thats where they bury street bums because they have no money???

At any rate, I hope I am remembered when my time comes to be one with the earth and I hope i'm laid to rest in a decent cemetary.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.