Just heard on NPR this morning that we're trying to turn Iraq into a Democracy. Derrrrrrrr what???
You just can't impose freedom (especially on such a caste system form of existence that these people have been living in for centuries)upon a society so quickly and expect them to conform to western idiologies. I think its absolutely absurd myself! The Kurds don't look like they're going to help perpetuate that either- they want their own state in the country of Iraq- "The Kurdish Free-state" or something like that. Whatever we're going to do for those people we should do it and get out. With all the killing that is still going on there it sounds rather reminisant of ahhhhhh Vietnam.....

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I doubt they can ever make it or afganIRAQiranistan a democracy either--it ain't in the native blood--so to speak.

I think they also have forgotten what happened in our own past. Democracy did not happen overnight--it took many years just to get a foothold.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I can't help thinking 'Weimar' whenever this comes up. Ok, not a good comparison really but it shows what can happen when a nation with very little history of democracy and centuries of authoritarianism is forced to accept a new government system (Weimar was forced to come into existance in the belief that the allies would be more magnanimous in victory, Iraq is forcibly democritized because we love democracy). It took around 800 years for democracy to evolve in Britain (from Magna Carta to the present) and now we are trying to force nations to do it in a year. Oh well, so much for the evolved west.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Spot the oxymoron?

Yeah the oxymoron is pretty evident.

Like Carl said it didn't happen overnight here in the states even. Only 40-50 years ago people couldn't drink from a water fountain or eat at a lunch counter because of their color. Democracy is a very hard form of government to enact and perfect and its constantly evolving. Very difficult for people that have never been involved in one before.

Now I read that U.S. troops could be in Iraq for 10 years. They originally said they would be home in 6 to 12 months.

Greg

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"There are times when a Corps Commander's life does not count"
-General Winfield Scott Hancock at Gettysburg, July 3, 1863

Wiconquer: First off Iraq doesn't have a caste system, ypu must be thinking of India. Before the first Gulf War Iraq had a secular government and it did throughout Saddams reign.

Secondly and this is just my opinion the Kurds deserve a nation of their own they have suffered long enough.

Finally Iraq will not turn into Vietnam because for one thing the Vietcong had been fighting Guerilla wars since World War 2. So the tunnels and hideaways needed to fight a guerilla war were already in place when the Americans arrived. Iraq doesn't have this in place.

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"Family, friends, religion. These are the demons you must slay if you are to become successfull in bussiness. When opportunity knocks, you don't want to be sitting in some phoney-baloney church... or a SINAGOGUE!" - Montgomery Burns

Reddog, I thought there were tunnles all around Bagdad? The other thing is that you do not need tunnles to fight a gurilla war, think about the LRDG, T.E. Lawrence and so on. As for the Kurds getting a nation of their own, fair enough, I agree, but it is not as simple as that. The Turks don't want a Kurdish state on their border. The Iraiqis living in the Kurdish area are afraid of reprisals. As for the caste thing, caste is the wrong word, perhapse class system would be a better way to put it. I think the point 'Wil' was trying to make was that when the gap between rich and poor is so rediculously huge and has been for centuries, how will the poor react if one day they are asked to help rule the country? Once again I draw a (bad) comparison to Weimar Germany, suddenly a huge number of people have the vote and voteing will make the difference, what happened? Lots of extremeist parties appeared people voted for them. This could happen in Iraq, in the current climate I get the feeling that the 'extremeists' may be pro democracy but anti-US/UK. Then again, chances are they won't be around long, after all, what is the point in imposing a democracy if people keep voteing wrong!

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Okay the majority of Iraqi's are poor right now, but before the first Gulf War many were living quite well, though they were under opressive rule. I'm sure(hoping)that most of the people will be able to regain their former prosperity. Though democracy will take time to adjust to it's a lot easier to adjust when you have money and you can educate your children.

I never heard about the tunnels around bagdad, theres places where WMD may have been stored, but i never heard of tunnels like the vietcong had. There will be occupation problems, but it won't turn into a full scale guerilla war unless the US/UK does something really stupid.

Also EVERY country has a class system. The difference between a caste and a class system is that in a caste system you cannot advance to a higher caste. In a class system you have the oppurtunity to advance yourself to a "higher" class.

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"Family, friends, religion. These are the demons you must slay if you are to become successfull in bussiness. When opportunity knocks, you don't want to be sitting in some phoney-baloney church... or a SINAGOGUE!" - Montgomery Burns