I like point 21.

>>>>> 18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.
>>>>> 19. Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs safer.
>>>>> 20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.
>>>>> 21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries
>>>>> to control them.
>>>>> 22. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.
>>>>> 23. Enforce the "gun control laws" we ALREADY have, don't
>>>>> make more.
>>>>> 24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you
>>>>> create slaves.
>>>>> 25. The American Revolution would never have happened with
>>>>> gun control.

Are you trying to say that the British are slaves?

Point 20 is flawed, guns don't cause crimes, they facilitate them in exactly the same way matches facilitate arson.

22 is equally flawed on the basis that it implies anything is your right if you fight for it hard enough.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

No, the British are Zombies haven't you seen Shawn of the Dead? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

No more flawed than suggesting that the presence or lack of police do the same. The question to ask is: Has crime per capita gone up, down, or remained the same in Britain (or elsewhere) when gun laws are changed or ownership restricted?

On a singular basis, yes. As a society, no. If society deems something a right then it is regardless of what that may be.

On the whole, Chrome's original post is simply retoric and should be regarded as such rather than taken as absolute maxims of some sort.

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Truth is stranger than bullshit!

Ah, the famous 2nd Amendment...

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and arm Bears, shall not be infringed."

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Everly Brothers - What I Have To Do Is Dream
"Never wrestle with pigs, you both end up getting dirty and the pig likes it."

Dam right!!

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Chrome you just love to put up the controversial stuff. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I think they should make it easier to get a good paying job than to buy a gun at Wal-Mart.

I guess next you will put up stuff on abortion, gay rights, politics, drugs, and rock and roll.

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

I think anyone who doesn't have a criminal record should have the right to own a gun, but I also think most people should consider if they really need to use that right... What I'm saying is, there are so many people, especially in the US, who own guns without really needing them for anything. And every gun, even when put away in a drawer, is a potential murder weapon, say in the case a burgler steals it and uses it later. I think the fewer guns there are in circulation, the better for everyone. Crime isn't going to be prevented by arming up against it.

Neverteheless, I do believe it is the right of any non-criminal to judge if he/she really needs a gun for either protection, hunting, or whatever cause. But automatic weapons for civilians doesn't sound right to me, whatever the circumstances...

[ 05. January 2007, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Lord of War ]

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"There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people"
-Heinz Guderian

No, the British are Zombies haven't you seen Shawn of the Dead? [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>[/quote]Hey, I resemble that remark! Some of my best friends are zombies

We have had gun control for a fair while and from what I recall crime with stolen or legally held guns has indeed gone down, gun crime has gone up in line with other crime rates however. On the other hand, accidental shootings of family members, innocent bystanders and so on have dropped significantly since gun control was introduced and I'd regard that as pretty important (worth noting actually, statistically speaking guns kept for self defense are far more likely to wind up hurting a family member than to be involved in preventing a crime).

I'd disagree, taking onboard the idea of natural and inaliable rights (as discribed in your own constitution). I would say the right to gun ownership is as you discribe, able to be removed by society. I would however argue that some truths are self evident, that all men are created equal and that they have certain rights that exist beyond the control of society (like the right to life). But let's leave that one as it's a philosophical quagmire

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

'The only way you'll get a Democracy in this country is to shoot a few people !'

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

God created man.
Sam Colt made them equal.

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"Danger Will Robinson!"

Martin, the man in your photo if not the Mahatma who is he?

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Everly Brothers - What I Have To Do Is Dream
"Never wrestle with pigs, you both end up getting dirty and the pig likes it."

Big long way from The Mahatma za.
'Alf Garnett' would be your search-term of choice.
I suspect he's a very British joke though.
Cheers,
Adam.

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

God Bless Alf Garnett. The real bigots in Britain never realised writer Johnny Speight was taking the piss out of 'em! [img]graemlins/salute.gif[/img]

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Regards,

Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/thehistoryvault/
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/Historian/

I see, the Limey version of Archie Bunker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Bunker

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066626/

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Everly Brothers - What I Have To Do Is Dream
"Never wrestle with pigs, you both end up getting dirty and the pig likes it."

I see Garnett was the inspiration for Bunker, curse this brain-drain.
This is all a long way from guns though .

I like the look of the statistics for Canada, Very high ownership of Automatic weapons combined with an exceptionally low murder rate. What are they doing right then?

Living in a country where the press has a moral panic over penknives, an attempt was made to ban de-acs and the gun laws are frankly arbitrary I'm just secretly bitter that we're hardly allowed any firearms fun outside of smoothbore and black powder.
Isn't black powder pretty much unregulated in the states?

Cheers,
Adam

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

And yet there are massive holes in our legislation, it's illegal to own a pistol unless it's in an obsoleet caliber for example. Weird....

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Guess they figure it'll be hard to get ammo for and would be easier to trace if said gun was used in a crime.

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In that case I'm surprised the local drug dealers haven't had their Mac-10s and AK47s re-chambered for 8mm pinfire....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

My point exactly, ammo can be a pain to get hold of but if I wanted to walk into a shop with say a Martini Henry or something similar it wouldn't be too hard.

Speaking of firearms, had this flagged up for me earlier:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ab60662ad6

[ 07. January 2007, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Stefan ]

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Uncle Ted, ( Nugent ) said; sure I believe in gun control, putting the 2nd bullet in the same hole as the 1st one is perfect gun control.

Two of my favorite quotes by Edward Abbey:

“If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military. The hired servants of our rulers”

“The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state-controlled police, and military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy…an armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny.”

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Yawn.


Still returning to the wording of the famous or infamous 2ns Amendment, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." I wonder why people make such a fuss aout the 2nd part "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" and sweep the "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" under the carpet.

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Everly Brothers - What I Have To Do Is Dream
"Never wrestle with pigs, you both end up getting dirty and the pig likes it."