The irrational hysteria over the Great Floating Plastic Island, spawned a discussion of other pet environmental causes, notably the completely ridiculous and out of control "Global Warming" Swindle. The popular media has done us no favors in uncritically reporting the most sensational and least "scientific" studies.

Does Global Warming really exist? Maybe.

Is mankind solely, or even mainly, responsible? Maybe, but probably not.

Can do to anything significantly influence Global Warming? Maybe, but probably not.

Should we even worry about it? Maybe, but maybe not.

In other words, the real experts are not convinced by the few flawed studies, and the only ones screaming that we have to "DO SOMETHING!" are the politicians who sense an opportunity to extend their control over our daily lives.

U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works

Temperature records and the kyota agreement

Earth's Temperature History: How Well Is It Known

What about the ozone layer then??!



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Personally I just wonder if by just a little more effort we can have energy systems from the nature like solar power and wind power why not use it. Why does it have to be the oil everywhere? I very much believe it is the big oil companies that crush the development of other energy sources because it is in their interest to get the money from the oil. And as long as there is no competition you decide the price. Just like the Arabs now, and also Russia getting filthy rich by the oil/gas prices.

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I'm with DA on this one. Nothing wrong with looking after the environment, but this MMGW bollox has turned into some kind of religion. It's been used as a cause celebre by every attention-seeking wassock under the Sun desperate for 15 minutes of fame. Last year a new group was formed in Edinburgh who took it on themselves to put posters on windscreens of 4x4s informing the owners how inconsiderate they were being to the environment. Work that one out- who cleaned up all that discarded paper?
The environmental lobby have well and truly shot themselves in the foot with all the hysteria of the last few years.

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Regards,

Gordon
History Vault Bookshop
FortressScotland-http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/Historian/

I have personally noticed that the "green persons" mostly think with their heart. Nothing bad about that but it does not always really make things go the right away if you only shout and not show any better way to do things. They definitely need a better campaign designer.

But even so blaming the bad campaign is not a reason to cover your eyes what we should do or not in the future.

Just my opinion.

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Advocate,

We must be reading different studies. But studies aside, I'm a convert. Having seen the unprecedented number and severity of hurricanes 2 years ago, I'm convinced. There is no way that could be just an anomaly.

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David

"It is history that teaches us to hope"
Robert E. Lee

I agree with it being a load of tosh, this is just one of earth's cycles that justs happens to be slap dab in our lives.
Think of this. If we are responsible for global warming, who was responsible for the ice age? And where the dinosaurs responsible for their own extinction?

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Patriotism is where the love of your country comes first, nationalism is where the hate of other countries comes first.-Charles De Gaulle.

Ok, how about this then, let us assume/accept for a moment that we have not caused global warming and that the earth is indeed going through a massive change as it does periodically. Should we still continue to live our lives as we do at the moment?

No, we still need to do something because one way or another things are changing and failiure to recognise this is going to cost a lot of lives one way or another. It has started to already, it's about time we started coming up with contingincy plans.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Ok, lets run with the assumption you propose; that this uptick in global temperature is caused by something other than man. Maybe plate tectonics have caused some condition (which BTW, we don't understand) or the sun's output has increased for some reason (again we don't really understand why), or there has been some major increase in the natural input of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

What contingency plan would you suggest? We obviously don't understand what, exactly, is causing the problem so, assuming we had the technology to change any of these things, what do we do? I guess we could mobilize the population of the earth, and throw all of our efforts and resources into building a fleet of spaceships so we could leave earth when it gets too hot....IF it gets too hot.

Anybody like that idea?

Contingency Plans ? Fine, good idea.....
As long as it's a volunteer group of experts from both sides of the line they declare, and NOT a Government bureau-agency-consulting group-fact finder committee, etc..
These x-lawyers (only ones who can afford campaigns for office) are expert in soaking the clock and presenting dribble as evidence of their hard work.
Q..."How do you say F-You in Lawyer-ese ?"
A..."Trust me."

Fool me for the last 250 years....Shame on you !
Fool me again....Shame on me !

There needs to be a "honest" desire, so NO pay (subsistence pay)! Find the people who care about more than a paycheck, and you just may find the right people.
Find the ones looking for "Grants" & "Extensions", and you'll have found the same old @$#% in a different wrapper. teams.

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All opinions expressed here are those of "Little Green Men" and don't necessarily represent views, positions, policy, thoughts, actions, or anything else.

Well now, there is a damn good idea, work out what is causing the earth to warm up. We know it is a natural cycle, how about working out why it happens?

How about research into alternative forms of energy? Building considerations, i.e. not building in areas likely to flood? Anything is better than the alternative (i.e. doing nothing).

I'm not necessarily talking about contingency plans, however we can see that changes are occurring, does it not seem silly to ignore them and carry on as usual?

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Well, a quick look at the number of on-line articles about climate/global warming will reveal that is exactly what is occurring and has been for a number of years.


The supposition is that the rise in earth's temperature is NOT caused by human activity. How would alternative energy research solve the problem? How would NOT building in flood plains affect the issue? Granted, it would be logical to do some of these things, but a rise in earth's temperature is not a good motivation for doing them.

Why is doing ANYTHING better than doing NOTHING, if you don't even know what the problem really is? The obvious course is to investigate the problem, determine if it really exists, and the causes, but we are already doing that.



The problem is not being ignored, people are investigating it and trying to understand the causes and the underlying mechanisms and they are making progress. But no one can say with any certainty that they completely understand he whole thing. What is silly, in fact, flat out stupid, is being stampeded into do anything, just so we can say we are doing something, before we understand what the problem and it's causes are.

I strongly disagree with you in this matter.
Having a degree in mining, an extensive part of my education was about geology.
During the last 2-3 billion years things have been different on the Earth.
I don't say better, but different.
It has been colder, and it has been warmer, compared with today.

The climate issue has become big business today. A lot of people are travelling around the world as "wannabe-Christs", like the "next-president-of-the-USA" and other prophets threatening common people with Dooms Day like in the age of the Inquisition.

At the center of our planet there is a core of molten iron.
This furnace generates, among other things, the magnetic field around our planet, protecting us from cosmic and solar radiation.

Gradually this core will cool off and solidify, and its nothing you can do about it!
The protective magnetic field will disappear, and the Earth will become a deserted piece of rock like the other planets in the Solar system.

So I start my Ford F-250 7.3 liters engine and my Mercedes 300 CE
(no english cars on my yard...)
with joy and without a thought about global warming...


So my advice is; have a good time while you can.
We are all going to Hell soon enough...

Regards
RAM

Read what I wrote RAM, I didn't say man was responsible for global warming, I set up a hypothetical situation. Now, are you honestly saying that whatever causes it, we should ignore it, stop all the research into energy and ways to deal with our changing world?

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Yes, I didn't say it wasn't happening, I simply stated that this research was a good idea.

Alternative energy could enable people to survive better in areas likely to experience drastic climate changes. One possible impact of global warming (it has happenned before) is flooding of low-lieing regions, not builing in flood planes would mean that people dont drown should this happen. These are all things that could help us adapt to a changing world. That is why.

I didn't say doing 'anything' was better than doing 'nothing,' however doing 'something' is definately better than ignoring the problem. What that something is I can't tell you but I'd say research into the problem is a pretty good thing to do, as is research into possible affects and ways to deal with them. They are all better than doing nothing.

Sorry, I never said that the problem was being ignored, I said that we shouldn't ignore it. Fundamental difference there.

Clearly however you are missing something, which is the fact that I would say that simply researching into the issue is 'something' which you clearly do not. No one is talking about being stampeded into doing anything. What we are talking about is getting rid of the attitude that 'global warming isn't man made so it need not affect my life.' Sadly this most likely isn't true. If global warming actually exists (which most people with half a brain concede it does) then it will affect all of us in some quite profound ways.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Have I misunderstood your question?
If man isn't responsible for the global warming, then what can you do about it it?

Anyway, what can be done?
Look to Iceland!
I've been there several times and learned how they use the steam from the mid-Atlantic Ridge to produce;
first electrical power, then house and swimming pool heating to a great extent.
Beneath our feet we have all the energy we need as long as the planet Earth's furnace is burning.
Why aren't we exploring it and using it? It's free, except from the drilling cost, and it doesn't generate pollution.

I'm selling equipment for this kind of drilling, and I experience that the same people that complain about global warming consider it too expensive to pay for an DTH installation that give them environmentally friendly energy...

As long as these stupids have this point of view, I drive my big bore engines and just give a f**k...

See you in Hell!

RAM

Probably, I'm not suggesting we can stop it but we can prepare for the changes it will bring about. Does that not make sense.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Again, you are imputing to me something which I have never stated or implied. I have absolutely stated that honest research is a definite prerequisite for taking any meaningful action. That research is taking place and still has quite a way to go before we can make reach any conclusions about what should be done.

If we are not being stampeded into taking inappropriate actions what is the Kyoto Protocol all about? What is the latest US government tax raising "greenhouse gas" scheme all about? These are actions based on the unproven assumption that they will somehow improve the situation.

I don't know if global warming actually exists or not, and quite frankly, neither do you. To make such a claim based on something like 40 years of climatological data is totally irresponsible. Significant climate shifts can only be measured over centuries; the current trend in the earth's temperature appears to be upward, but whether it will continue for any length of time or reach temperature levels that are harmful to humans is impossible to predict given the current state of our understanding of the climate. I certainly don't want to pay higher taxes or change my entire lifestyle because some 'environmentalist" jumped to some conclusion based on an incomplete data set, but that certainly appears to be exactly what is being advocated.