Does OZ owe it's freedom to the US?

They go beyond that and then some...
From Purple#255

This was weeks before the Embargo was enacted, and the Japanese are clearly preparing to invade Malaya and the DEI. The embargo absolutely did not precipitate the war...It was an effort to try and stop it.

 

Choosing an embargo which they believed was highly likely to lead to war is a funny way of containing the problem.

 

The intelligence assessments that said the Japanese were likely to attack if an embargo was undertaken.

 

And if they didn't exist, the strategic assessment of the senior officials etc that held this point of view.

 

The MAGIC intercepts were already telling them that Japan was invading South weeks before the embargo was put into effect.

Again, to restate PURPLE #255

Please pay careful attention to the part highlighted in red.

The War is coming...Embargo or no embargo.

 

and

Anybody that can read a newspaper could come to this conclusion...For example:
The Canberra Times
August 4, 1941
AMERICAN OIL EMBARGO ON JAPAN - Roosevelt Acts WASHINGTON[?] Saturday (AAP). - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 4 Aug 1941
Note the big bold headline
JAPANESE WARNING OF EXPLOSION IN PACIFIC

Further, not the article directly below the one I linked to
Two Years' Supply in Japan
Finally, note the response from the Japan Times

I fail to see why you act as if Western Nation in the Pacific was completely blind, deaf, and dumb without input from US intelligence sources, when the Japanese are practically broadcasting their intentions to the world.

 

Others have mentioned a number of reasons but consider:
1) Continued export of these materials would have made Japan stronger. Especially when the Dutch and British joined in there was a significant impact on Japan's ability to wage war in the short term and an overwhelming one in the long term.
2) The politics of the time favored it.

 

How much did FDR really consider the position of the British Commonwealth and DEI when deciding American policy in the Pacific? My Realist foundations find it hard to believe he wasn't putting American interests first and foremost at all times with all others a distant second. I know keeping your allies strong is working for oneself, but I'm not sure it was enough for FDR to risk all out war before the US was ready.

The 140,000 troops you pointed out were positioned against Malaya and DEI, not American territories. Again, US territory was not immediately under threat, so why force Japan's hand and make them attack sooner (I'm assuming Japan's attacks against Malaya and DEI occurred earlier than originally planned - have Japanese records shown dates?) than they otherwise would have? And did original Japanese plans against Malaya and DEI also involve attacks against the
Philippines and Hawaii or did the embargo change Japan's plans? If the Japanese weren't originally planning to attack the US, then it was a big risk that was nearly disastrous - Imagine if the Japanese had sunk the Pacific carriers in Pearl?!

And you say the embargo was designed to give Japan pause to reconsider - but as everyone keeps pointing out, FDR and his administration generally seemed to strongly think it wouldn't work. To use an Americanism (albeit perhaps butchered), this sounds like a Hail Mary which was intercepted and run for an opposition touchdown. Going back to my original points, this seems like a miscalculation. When every day worked in America's favour, why not avoid any possible provocations and try to eek out every extra advantage possible?

 

War may have been inevitable, but the embargo seems to have hastened it. As per my previous post, I would love to know if the Japanese timelines and the extent of their attacks were affected by the embargo - I don't see any American territories listed in Purple 255.

 

How can you come to a reliable conclusion from a Newspaper article? The media is neither unbiased nor reliable. Can you imagine foreign policy determined by the media! If I believed everything in the media, I would be living in a bunker underground.

I'm not saying the British, Dutch and Australian were deaf, dumb and blind - I was questioning how much they were kept in the loop. Especially considering how magnanimous many here claim FDR was.

 

It's called enlightens self interest. By helping our Allies do well, we are helping ourselves do well.

The US would not be ready for war until 1943. Japanese troop movements and MAGIC intercepts showed that they were not going to wait that long.

Further, if Malaya and the DEI fall, the Philippines will be essentially cut off. So, all those troops you have been stuffing in there are so many more rats in the trap.

 

As to how much consideration given, I imagine FDR gave as much thought as Britain and Australia gave to American interests before engaging in a general European war in 1939. I'm not saying they were wrong, on the contrary, they were doing the only honorable thing especially after providing the cutlery for the carving up of Czechoslovakia.

FDR was a American president, elected by Americans, so he was obligated by law to act in US interests first and foremost, just as the British PM and Australian leader. Allies have to reach a consensus in war, but we were not officially allies at this point. We had many similar interests and desires but we did not agree on everything.

How often is a democracy ready for a war? When Germany invaded Poland there was no direct or even a indirect threat to Australian interests, yet Australia didn't hesitate to join the rest of the Commonwealth in declaring war. Was Australia prepared for war? Not at all. They acted on principle as well as self interest.

 

With the fall of Malaya and the DEI, the Philippines are, as I have stated earlier, cut off. This is the immediate threat...No resupply, no more troops in, no air bridge to CONUS, etc.

I have not seen any concert dates for an invasion prior to...But initial planning was begun in January, 1941.

As to invasion plans for the Philippines, they had those since the late teens - early twenties, and had been regularly updating them. So it was a simple matter of allocating the units.

IIRC, the invasion of the DEI was postponed, and the Philippines was put in it's place, when the US did cave to Japanese demands. This was done to secure the sea lanes to the SRA.

Attacking Pearl Harbor had been discussed as early as April, 1940. But, it would not be until January,1941, that the plan began to be worked on in detail.

It was a risk that was accepted...

MacArthur's bluff and bluster convinced the Joint Chiefs that the Philippines could be held if attacked, current US Intel did not for see an attack on Pearl since the Japanese lacked underway refuelling capability necessary to stage such an attack, the British believes that they could easily defend Singapore and Malaya...The list goes on. The Western Allies greatly overestimated what their forces could do.

As to sinking the carriers at Pearl...Where else would they have been if the US had waited? Sitting fat, dumb and happy along Ford Island. They would not have been out at sea reinforcing the outlying islands, because that would have been done.

No, they point out that some had thought that it would lead to war...While there were others in the administration who believed that the Japanese would back down from initiating a war that they could not win. As I have continued to state, there was no consensus as to what the Japanese would or would not do.

Not really...You throw a Hail Mary when you are already losing the game...If it is intercepted and returned for a touchdown is inconsequential as you were already losing.

It was hardly a miscalculation...Sacrificing Malaya and the DEI puts the Philippines in an even more untenable situation. Not to mention the fact that the Japanese now have exactly what they wanted, which would further weaken the US diplomatic/economic position in the Pacific.

 

Yamamoto discussed a Pearl Harbor attack with Fukudome in March or April, 1940.

Yamamoto sent Takijiro Onishi a letter in early January, 1941, instructing him to start planning the attack. In February, Onishi brought Genda onboard.