Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

The invasion of Iraq in 2003 was illegal, unethical and unnecessary.

Discussion in 'Non-World War 2 History' started by Aussiegoat, May 2, 2019.

  1. Aussiegoat

    Aussiegoat Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    6
    I'm interested to see whether a non-American would even attempt to refute this statement ;) I've heard all the usual arguments for the war, but they're only ever made by Americans (or coalition politicians/military).

    If there are no takers, I invite our American brethren to take up their pitchforks and flaming torches :angrymob: and lecture me about bringing forth democracy and capitalism to the downtrodden masses.

    P.s. Don't take me too seriously, we Aussies like to make fun of those we love more than anyone else :D
     
    CAC likes this.
  2. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,503
    Likes Received:
    3,037
    From memory the chief investigator for WMDs on the ground in Iraq was an Australian...it was on HIS advice that the shit started to hit the fan...
     
    rkline56 likes this.
  3. Aussiegoat

    Aussiegoat Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    6
    I'd forgotten that - Richard Butler! Became the Governor of Tasmania too.

    IIRC he was still opposed to the invasion.
     
  4. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,503
    Likes Received:
    3,037
    By HIS advice I mean he said there was a likelihood that there were WMDs - but probably in trucks being moved around so he and his team couldn't find them...The decision to invade wasnt his.
     
  5. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    172
    Location:
    Poland
    Safe war (for the invader) makes war certain.

    It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.
     
  6. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    6,329
    Likes Received:
    1,712
    Location:
    The Arid Zone
    There didn't need to be any WMDs to make resumption of the war legal. We were in a ceasefire. That cease-fire could end with any single violation of the terms of the agreement. The UN security council issued sixty (60!) resolutions against Iraq for violations of the agreement. We should have resumed the war about a week after the ceasefire began instead of screwing around for ten years.

    .
     
    bronk7, Otto and rkline56 like this.
  7. rkline56

    rkline56 USS Oklahoma City CG5

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    215
    Location:
    CA Norte Mexico, USA
    Remembering the Halabja Massacre
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Don't forget this tragedy and the suffering of the Kurds. YPG, SDF friends of civilization who defeated isis on the ground for all of us, when legitimate (?) governments were running away at Palmyra, Manbij, Kobane, Mosul, Raqqa and Tabqah. Their courage from Kobane to Raqqa, to me, is most inspiring.
    I have friends who had to escape Halabja and the Mukhabarat by fleeing over the mountains to Turkey, It was still bitter cold up there in March 1988 and many died of starvation and exposure.

    Of course there are two sides to every story but it is also highly debatable that Saddam should have been allowed to survive Gulf War GHW Bush and his atrocities in Kuwait. 2003 would then have - possibly - been moot. Too bad Bremer made an absolute bollocks of his time influencing Baghdad's Reconstruction and interim government.

    Sadly Baghdad is still in complete paralytic disarray, Sunni - Shia sheesh. With very little hope of digging out of the festering civil war - ever.

    Just my $1.49.
    .
     
  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,246
    Likes Received:
    5,669
    I stopped watching the news in '03.
     
  9. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,515
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    18 or 19? :D
     
    Slipdigit, lwd and OpanaPointer like this.
  10. Aussiegoat

    Aussiegoat Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    6
    Sounds like North Korea better sleep with both eyes open then! And then who? China's next door, and they've really been asking for it!

    So why did the US wait all those years to resume the war ? It seems like it had 60 'good' reasons to do so before 2003. It doesn't strike anyone as coincidental that Bush was pushing the case for an invasion of Iraq within a week of 9/11, and Rumsfeld on 9/11 itself?
     
  11. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2000
    Messages:
    5,739
    Likes Received:
    563
    Location:
    Festung Colorado
    It took so long because there was a person named Clinton between the Bushes.
     
  12. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,322
    Likes Received:
    1,245
    Location:
    Michigan
    In summary it has yet to be proven or even well supported that the two opinions in the title are correct or well founded.
     
  13. Aussiegoat

    Aussiegoat Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    6
    Bush had plenty of time to invade. Why did he wait for 9/11?
     
  14. Aussiegoat

    Aussiegoat Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    6
    Proving the illegality of the invasion rests with the Security Council under United Nations Charter Articles 39-42. This would be a pointless exercise, however, as the US and UK hold veto power.

    However, the following proves the underlying illegality of the war: UN Security Council Resolutions 660, 678 and 1441 did enable action to be taken if Iraq didn't toe the line, but they also laid out the conditions that had to be met before war could be declared. These conditions were not met and the Security Council, which is only authorised to use force against an "aggressor" in the interests of preserving peace, did not authorise the war.
     
  15. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Not defending one side or the other, but I feel there is a chronological disconnect here. Bush was sworn in as president in late January 2001. 9/11 was 8 months later. The invasion of Iraq occured in March 2003.
     
  16. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,322
    Likes Received:
    1,245
    Location:
    Michigan
    The UN charter specifically allows for countries to act in self defense. No Resolution is needed for them to do so. Self defense includes responding to attacks on the armed forces of a country while performing legitimate tasks.
     
    bronk7 likes this.
  17. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    328
    Location:
    MIDWEST
    exactly --thank you....Iraq violated the ceasefire--plain and simple
     
  18. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,461
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    I guess Bush senior did not invade Iraq because it could be Vietnam 2. Civil war and post-war US casualties would be inevitable. Now as American troops have been pulled away the empty space new radical troops pour in. Russia steps in. Iranian troops. Turkey takes its part. Putin at least enjoys having more power in the area 'for free'.
     

Share This Page