Can anyone tell me how many submachineguns a british infantry and a british airborne squad squad had during September 1944? I'd could also need some info on how the squad was divided during combat, was it always divided in a Bren section and a rifle section?

best regards/ Daniel [img]smile.gif[/img]

Based on a squad of 12 members it was as follows:-
2 Bren guns each with 1 assistant gunner armed with a Sten gun.
2 Thompson submachineguns held by either squad leader and 2IC or other troop.
Rest of the compliment fitted out with Lee-Enfield SMLE rifles either Mk4 variant or old SMLE configuration.

No, the section wasn't separate as such, as each part of the section had to lay down fire for each other in any circumstances, never jeopardising the safety of any member of the squad by splitting them up.

Hope this helps, Ryan.

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Great reply Panzerknacker! I always thought the british airborne units were organised in the same way as the regular infantry units, apparently I was wrong. What I meant with the squad was, as you say, the split- up made for supporting each other.

So this is how an airborne 1944 squad looked like?

1x Squad leader armed with Thompson
1x Assistant squad leader armed with Thompson
2x Bren gunner
2x assistant Bren gunner armed with Sten gun
6x Riflemen

My question now is: how the squad was divided when providing covering fire for each other etc?

best regards/ daniel

That all depended on the commander's prefernce. Laying down bases of fire with Bren guns to support movement of riflemen, while submachinegunners got to the front to provide further cover, and/or close support for teh riflemen was a preffered method of advance though.

__________________
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

I'm really sorry I'm going away for the weekend - there must be information about this in my Arnhem collection and I just don't have time to research...

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Something to to with books and a jumblesale, Martin? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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I wish !
No, it's something to do with family - it is, after all, 'that' time of year.... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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I thought that usually the assistant leader stayed with the Bren section. If that is the case then that would mean atleast:

1x Assistant leader armed with Thompson
2x Bren gunner
2x Assistant Bren gunner armed with Sten gun

and

1x Squad leader armed with Thompson
6x Riflemen

If so, then there wouldn't be much firepower left in the last group who is supposed to do the maneuver. I imagine that then instead the squad was divided in this way:

1x Assistant leader armed with Thompson
1x Bren gunner
1x Assistant Bren gunner

and
1x Squad leader armed with Thompson
1x Bren gunner
1x Assistant Bren gunner armed with Sten
6x Riflemen

I guess that some riflemen sometimes stayed with the Bren team in this case, am I right?

Does this division of troops look right or should it look in some other way?

Martin, there's no rush here so if you feel that you have something to contribute you can post whenever the time suits you.

best regards/ daniel

G'day

Maybe have a look at
www.stormpages.com/garyjkennedy/British/british_parachute_battalion.htm
There you can find the organasation onf other army 's too

Popski

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Thanks Popski but now I'm really confused. A sergeant commanding each section and on scope and mortar within each section.

Can someone explain this to me?

regards

So, can anyone tell me how common it was that the 2in mortar and the sniper rifle were actually used by the squad?

regards

May be wrong on this but im fairly sure that by Spetember 44 i dont think many would have been armed with a thompson more likely the sten mk5 know it doesnt help with the sniper rifle mortar problem but just thought i should mention it

Thanks Alister, I agree on that the Sten was probably more likelier than the Thompson.

regards

G'day

The sten mk5 was for paratrooper use. The Thompson was still used but not that much at the end of the war. It was mainly used at the beginning of the war by special forces, the sten was not developed then. The cost of a sten was nearly nothing compared to the cost of a thompson, I thought a sten was $3,- and a thompson $28,- in those days.

Popski

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Wenn ist das Nunstrück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!.. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
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Sounds correct, I think I've heard those costs as well.

regards

Sorry Charly

The cost of the gunn's wasn't very correct. A sten was 3 pounds and the later mark 5 was 5 pounds, and a thompson was at the beginning $209 and by 1939 reduced to $45. according to Terry Gander's book page 64
I thought I knew the cost out of my head but I shouldn't trust my head too much.

Popski

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Ah, details, it's not so important. Thanks!

regards

G'day Charlie

On the www.stormpages there is info on how weapons were used, the 2inch mortar was used 1 per Rifle platoon but later in the war used by AT gun crew and Carriersections, mainly for lighting up targets. The trigger-operation of the 2 inch mortar enabled it to be used horizontally against targets for example in street fights although not without risk.

Popski

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Hi Popski, could you please tell me the url for that site?

best regards/ daniel [img]smile.gif[/img]

Here it comes Charlie

Very nice detail and pictures

http://www.stormpages.com/garyjkennedy/index.htm

and give this a try

http://www.britishairborne.org/
and look at the the infantry weapons at the bottom of the site

Enjoy Popski

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Wenn ist das Nunstrück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!.. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
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Sorry not complete yet

In the stormpage look under infantry-weapons of WWII.

Popski

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Wenn ist das Nunstrück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!.. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Monty Python's Killing Joke

Thanks! Sorry, I din't understand what page you meant at first.

regards/ daniel [img]smile.gif[/img]

Not sure where you got this from, but for most of WW2 the British squad was a 10 man affair, with an NCO armed with a SMG (Thompson, then later Sten), 6 riflemen (with SMLEs and then N04s), 1 Bren Gunner, 1 No 2 on the Bren plus an ammo carrier - both armed with a rifle.

No British infantry unit to my knowledge ever had more than 1 Bren per squad - am not 100% sure re the Airborne, but will check and post again.

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Sorry Sommecourt-you would know better than me. My knowledge is only based on several photographs...I made the mistake of assuming this was therefore common practice...

__________________
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett