The almost complete remains of Lancaster JB-659, 'OF:J-Johnnie' from 97 Squadron, Bourn, Cambs have been excavated near Amsterdam and have been brought to Wickenby Museum in Lincolnshire for display as a memorial.

Two of the crew were buried in 1944, the remainder were found with the wreckage and their remains have been reunited with those of their comrades.Tragically, the falling bomber hit a farmhouse, killing the Dutch farmer, his wife and four of their children.

The wreckage filled thirty large crates : the total cost of excavating, packing and flying it to the the UK was in the region of £120,000. The entire operation was paid for for by the Royal Netherlands Air Force and thereby the people of Holland.

http://www.a1.nl/nfla/JB659.html

( If your Dutch is a little 'rusty', click on the Wickenby link at the bottom )

'J-Johnnie' was on the way back from Berlin on the night of 30th January, 1944 and fell to the guns of a night-fighter.

Does anyone have any idea which one ?

[ 02. March 2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Martin :

there were a total of 42 claims made by German night fighters this night of 30/31 January 1944.

Is there a certain time reported of the attacks ? this may help as it is most probably a Bf 110G-4 of III. or IV./NJG 1.

Oblt Augenstein shot down two Lancasters, the first at 21.49 and the second at 22.00.
's at 22.10 and 22.25
Oblt Schnaufer claimed 1 Lanc at 22.15 10 km West of Amsterdam
Lt Krupinski of IV./NJG 1 shot down a Lanc at 22.20 hours.

E

Erich,

According to Chorley, 'J-Johnnie' was shot down around 22:10 hrs....

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A few months ago there was some press attention to this....Not to the nightfighter part but the crash and deaths on the ground. Will see if I can dig something up....Might be partt of my upcoming series: AMsterdam in WW2....

Got already some Then and Now items!

A gestapo building was "rocketed" by Typhoons litterally around the corner from where I live...
Anyway more later...

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I see my post did not come out in it's entirety....

the 22.10 hours claim was made by Ofw. Vinke of IV./NJG 1 claiming 1 Lanc and then another one at 22.25 hours.

E

Just checked the map and 'Haarlemmerleide' where the Lanc' came down is absolutely due west of Amsterdam.

I wonder if it could have been the Schnaufer claim ?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

That could be it but IV./NJG 1 was operating in that area anyway, so it may have been Vinke or another ?

E

A little tidbit of info:

The JB659 flew its 9th mission on Jan. 30, 1944. 7 of the 8 previous mission were to Berlin, the same target of this, Jan. 30th, mission.

Also a crew pic at http://www.rafwmm.flyer.co.uk/jb-659/jb_659main.htm

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The book on Schnaufer by Peter Hinchliffe basically is just a sentance, stating that the RAF crew were proably congratulating themselves as they were enroute home when they were caught by Schnaufer and his crew......this being his 44th victory.

E

Euh? Is that book out already? This is the book a lot of people are waiting for, right? And not due for quite some time? Or am I with another book?

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Stevin :

You are thinking of Peter's new book in process about Helmut Lent !

E

ops:

That's the one!

S.

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Interesting that Ofw Heinz Vinke, with 54 victories, had less than a month to live.

He was shot down off Dunkirk on February 26th, 1944 - a 'shared kill' for F/Lt Raymond 'Cheval' Lallemant ( a Belgian ) flying a 198 Squadron Typhoon.

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yes Heinz Vinke holder of the RK-EL was shot down 15km north west of Dunkirk. His crew Uffz. Dunger and Uffz. Etwa MIA. Bf 110G-4 Werk # 740136, coded G9+KY. An Ocean recon mission......how bloody stupid !

E

Ocean recon ??

That sounds like an extraordinary waste of a highly effective crew....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Yes what was he doing flying during the day. "Hi RAF come shoot me down please !" About as stupid as NJG 2 ace Heinz Struning. Guess I'll leap-frog from airfield to airfield, and the crew was shot down, all killed during the day by a Spitfire in 1945. He was one of the leading ace personalities and NJG 2 felt his loss gravely.

Totally idiotic !

E

I've just checked the Schnaufer book, too - 'his' Lancaster that night crashed into the sea so it does look as though 'J-Johnnie' did fall to Vinke's guns.

Interestingly, the director of the Wickenby Museum has invited me up there next Friday to view the museum and the wreckage of this aircraft.( [img]smile.gif[/img] )

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Lucky you....will be strange though, to look at wreckage of a plane you know so much about now.

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Well, I took a day off work and went to Wickenby Airfield.

The wreckage of the Lancaster is extraordinary to see ( there is so much of it ! ) and makes one realise the violence with which such aircraft crashed. It makes a good contrast to the complete Lancasters at Coningsby and East Kirkby, both just a few minutes' drive away.

The people running the museum were very interested to hear of our discussion here - they had not yet researched the identity of the Nachtjagd pilot.

PS : This is probably the friendliest 'museum' I've ever visited - they allowed me to have a free flight to see the airfield from the air and presented me with an original piece of 'window' found there. If anyone is thinking of visiting Lincolnshire this year - be sure to go to Wickenby !

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Martin, if you and the museum need a simple bio on Vinke and his listing of victories I maybe able to help. Let me know!

Yes please !! [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

If you can let me have such a thing I will pass it on to the Wickenby Museum - for my own interest, I may be going along to the PRO to look through the 97 Squadron ORB to find out some more about J-For-Johnnie's short but dramatic career.

Thanks in advance, Erich !

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I would be more than happy to assist the next days. Will post a bio of him here and his victory list.

Martin if you go to pro let me know please I have a favour to ask about finding some captured NF vet reports. will have to find the proper numbers and let you know if possible ?

E

Heinz Vinke, final rank as Oberfeldwebel. RK on 19 September 1943 as Feldwebel. EL as nr. 465 on 25 April 1944 as Oberfeldwebel. Born 22 May 1920 at Barbyon the Elbe, Provinz Sachsen. Killed or missing ? on 26 February 1944 northwest of Dunkirk on a ocean recon mission and shot down by an RAF fighter. His crew Uffz. Dunger and Uffz. Walter missing in Bf 110G-4, wrk. nummer 740136, coded G9+KY.

In the spring of 1941 he was an Unteroffizier in 4./NJG 1 and on July 24/25, 1941 he flew his first mission. On November 1, 1941 he was in 5./NJG 1, later 11./NJG 1. On the night of February 27/28, 1942 he scored his first victory and by years end 1942 had 8 kills. April 9/10 1943 he scored 3 RAF bombers. On the night of August 17/18, 1943 he was shot down by a British night fighter and his crew was reported missing. After 27 night kills he was awarded the Ritterkreuz. by the end of 1943 he had 37 victories. January 20/21,1944 he scored his 40th. January 28/29, 1944 he shot down his 44-46th. On February 19/20, 1944 his 50-54th victories.

Around 150 missions and 54 night victories.

martin I will dig into my night fighter victory lists and see if I can obtain all 54 kills and record them here for you.

E