Guys :

Been going over the German night fighter claims data base from mid 44 onward and find that claims are for mostly Il-4's over Russia by NJG 5 and NJG 100 members. Can anyone post a scan of this bird and the correct name of this bomber ?

thanks all !

E

Got something:

"The Il-4 was extremely sturdy and reliable. I saw in few sources that "Il-4 was not easy to handle". This is based on (the most publicized) experience of raids deep in enemy territory, when the bomber was terribly overloaded for maximum range and payload. 'Combat Aircraft Of World War II' calls it the best medium bomber of WWII. It served as the standard long-range bomber, torpedo-bomber, glider tug, paratrooper carrier. Some attacks on Berlin were of quite a high psychological value for struggling Soviet people, if not of a strategic military one."



"One of the great bombers of the war, the Ilyushin Il-4 has not unnaturally been overshadowed in Western thinking by the great British and American aircraft, yet well over 5,000 Il-4s were produced between 1937 and 1944, the vast majority in the last three years, The original prototype of this low-wing twin-engine bomber, designated the TsKB-26, flew in 1935. was developed through the TsKB-30, and entered production in 1937 as the DB-3B (DB being a Soviet contraction denoting long-range bomber). Early examples were powered by 765-hp (57 I-kW) M-85 engines, but these were replaced by 960hp (716-kW) M-86s in 1938. Although a tough and relatively simple design. the aircraft suffered from a poor defensive armament of single nose, dorsal and ventral 7.62-mm. (0.3-in) guns, and lost heavily to such aircraft as the Bristol Bulldog, Gloster Gladiator and Fokker D.XXI during the Winter War against Finland in 1939-40. In 1939 a modified version with lengthened nose and more armour (the DB-3F) appeared, and in 1940. in conformity with changed Russian practice, the designation became Il-4 (denoting the designer, Sergei Ilyushin), Soon after the German attack on the USSR opened in 1941 it was decided to withdraw Il-4 production to newly opening plants in Siberia, at the same time replacing a large proportion of the metal structure by less strategically critical wood. Il-4s also entered service with Soviet Naval Aviation, and it was a naval-manned force of these bombers that first raided Berlin from the east on 8 August 1941, Thereafter the Il-4 paid frequent visits to the German capital and other targets in Eastern Europe. In 1944 production ended, although the Il-4 served until the end of the war and afterwards, Apart from increasing the calibre of its guns and giving it a torpedo-carrying ability, the Il-4 remained virtually unchanged between 1941 and 1944."

http://www.aeronautics.ru/il4.htm



http://normandie.niemen.free.fr/avions/il4datag.html

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Kai :

Thanks for the info.....I'll make a printed copy of this to file away. yes they must have had many because there are sure alot of claims made by NJG 100 in particular.
another a/c is the Soviet Li-2.....any clues on this bird ?
I'll post a bio on Gustav Francsi, one of the top aces in NJG 100 this afternoon.

E

Just checked through G. Francsi's listing of claims. 18 Soviet a/c just in 1945 with his Ju 88G-6.....an excellent account !

be back

E

The USSR bought 21 DC-3s from Douglas and Boris Lisunov spent 2 years at the Santa Monica plant to study the production methods.Back in the USSR production was initially undertaken at State Aircraft Plant No. 84, near Moscow and started in 1940.( DC 3=Li-2 that is... )

Don´t know if this was after WW2 but anyway:

This aircraft has also been produced in many variants: Li-2P for passengers, Li-2G for cargo duties with Aeroflot, Li-2T for military cargo duties, Li-2PG was a combi (both passengers as well as cargo), Li-2R was configured for photo-reconnaissance, Li-2D was for military "pathfinder" duties, Li-2V was ski-equiped and had its engines modified with a turbo compressor, Li-2(B) was a bomber version (!) and was fitted with a center-section bomb rack to carry 1500 kg bombs.....

..an estimated 2,700 produced in Soviet Union as the Lisunov Li-2...



http://www.vectorsite.net/avc47.html

PS.Eisenhower described the C-47 as one of the four machines that won World War II, along with the bulldozer, 6x6 truck, and the landing craft

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Kai, that would make perfect sense to drop supplies at night. Still seems the Il-4 was the most claimed, but given conditions at night confusion would easily persist even against RAF bombers. One German ace told me recently that they only guessed as well as to where a shot down RAF bomber would land/crash, making confirmation really tough. There are still so many unknowns for both sides of the conflict.

E

Gustav Francsi Oberleutnant.

born November 4, 1914 at Gierswalde by Göttingen. Died on October 6, 1961 on the Spanish coast, though the detaisl from my side are unclear.

RK on October 29, 1944 as a Leutnant, DK on September 10, 1944, EP on June 21, 1944.

Tok part as a Feldwebel in the attacks on the English coast and over Narvik, 100 missions with 2./KG 40. End of 1941 transfered to the Nachtjagd and at the end of 1943 in 1./NJG 100 on the East front flying missions. Could of been the top scorer in the Nachtjagd in the Ost as he scored with numerous downed Soviet a/c on many nights. The RK was presented for 36 kills. His kill tally included 7 RAF bombers near Warsaw. On August 14/15, 1944 he shot down 4 B-24's. 18 victories at night in the Ost during 1945, as his I./NJG 100 was involved with missions both against the Soviets and RAF forces and during February through end of April against the US 15th Air force B-24 unit the very little known 2641st bomb group, flying the mysterious all black B-24 !

E

Auch du ! too fast on the post button.....

He had 250 missions.

56 night victories with 49 in the east. Recommended for the EL which he should of received.

E