Gentlemen:

Trying to confirm the 4 claims made by Fw 190A-8's of IV./JG 54 over 4 Mitchells on the date of 25 September 1944 in the area of Arnheim. Since we are talking much of Operation Market Garden I thought it quite fit to bring this up at this time.

ok anyone have details on the B-25 Mitchell units serving over Holland during these date(s) in Holland ? US or RAF ??

thank you

320 Dutch Squadron flew missions in Mitchells during Market Garden. They lost a number of planes this month. Will try and find out on the 25th.

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I think this might be the group friend ! the only US group was a loss of 1 B-25 by the US 310th which was serving in Italy so this cannot be it.

thank you Stevin

Erich ~

Also read that 98 Sqn had "heavy losses" during Market Garden, but haven't been able to find dates or numbers. The only sources I did find only mentioned losses in 1943.

more later.

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will be looking forward to this. IV./JG 54 was quite active during Market Garden with it's Fw 190A-8's as most of the contention was by Bf 109's during the week of engagements with US, RAF fighters.

Found it.

98 Sqn lost 2 Mitchells this day. 54 Mitchells and 24 RAF Bostons attacked 5 flak and mortar positions in support of ground forces, between 16.50 and 17.00. 6 Mitchells were attacked by 12 FW190s, of which one was probably shot down. Tow Mitchells and one RAF Boston did not return. The two Mitchells belonged to 98 Sqn and one crashed near Arnhem and one near Nijmegen. The majority of the crews of both were killed.

source: En Nooit Was Het Stil, part II page 355-357

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fantastic Stevin ! yeah man this is what research is all about..........

great stuff, 1 claim was over Arnheim and the other three ? well the co-ordinates are listed and that is it but no listed town(s)

18.01 hrs Uffz. Gehring from 14./JG 54 1 Mitchell at 52/23/3 at 2,000m
18.02 hrs Lt. Budde of 14./JG 54 1 Mitchell at 52/23/3 at 2,000m
18.02 hrs Maj. Wolfgang Späte of IV. Stab/JG 54 1 Mitchell at 2500m over Arnheim
18.05 hrs Lt. Heinrich Sterr of 16./JG 54 1 Mitchell at 52/23/8 at 1500m

thanks

Erich ~

I think the Germans might have overclaimed this day. Maybe they claimed the Boston as a Mitchell?

Maybe Gehring and Budde claimed the same Mitchell...

320 Dutch Sqn was also part of this mission. They reported heavy and accurate flak but had only three planes lightly damaged.

No additional info on the Boston.

[ 23. August 2004, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Stevin ]

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asnything is possible Stevin. I think the Fw 190 pilots saw and attacked twin engine bombers at low altitude and a Boston may have been one of them. I am almost positive that IV./JG 54 had not run into B-25's before so making ID exact was probably not the case in this instance.
Am going to check Wolfgang's book though and see if he makes a remark about this air engagement. Although he covers the Me 163 kommando test unit and later JG 400, plus his time in JG 54 he does not include dates much in the entries

And while we're on 'Arnhem airwar', does anyone have any information about the Fw190 which famously crashed into a church tower near Arnhem bridge - supposedly while either strafing or bombing British troops - on September 19th ?

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