Hello. I'm new here. My Grandfather served in WWII from 1943 to the end of 1945. He never told us much but I am trying to piece together his military service. We know he was in Britian prior to D-Day. We think he said he went into Normandy on D-Day plus 10. His arm patches are for the 7th Army ETO 1944, and HQ ETO and Communication Zone 1944. He was a mechanic and driver and helped get supplies across France.

I don't know a whole lot more other than his service number and dates of service.

Could anyone help direct me to the next step in researching this? I have contacted the US Archives and only received the service dates and rank.

I have located a postcard that grandpa brought or sent back home. It is of the Cite' Universitaire in Basencon. I read that the city wa liberated in September '44. He apparently circled a window in the building that makes us think he stayed there. I also read that the Seventh went through the town at that time. I am getting confused by another item. He said that he went into France on D-Day plus 10, and "hauled supplies to Patton, when we could find the SOB." Am I right that Patton was with the 3rd Army after D-Day? What connection was there between the 7th and the 3rd. I think he mentioned being part of the Red Ball Express, but I might be remembering the story wrong.

Thoughts?

Still no luck so far identifying his unit exactly.

Howdy Rob and welcome aboard. Are these the two patches you are talking about?

HQ ETO Communication Zone


7th Army

Which patch was worn on which sleeve? The patch worn on the right sleeve is the former unit and the patch on the left sleeve is the current unit.

Hi Rob an dwelcome to the forums.

Try this site:
http://aad.archives.gov/aad/fielded-...R26&tf=F&bc=sl

and type in his name. Maybe you'll find his (digitalized) enlistment card. It won't give you much, but at least some information.

type his name as last name#first name#mi

__________________
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Yes, exactly.

The ETO patch is on the left and the 7th is on the right. There are 4 hatch marks on the lower left sleeve (combat stripes?) and a square olive green square patch with a gold symbol that looks like....I'm can't think of what it is called....looks like the thing romans wore on their heads in those cheesy movies. I'll have to try to find it online and get back to you.

Brain cramp. The symbol on the sleeve patch looks like the United Nations symbol.

Rob,

Seventh Army landed in Sicily during Operation Husky in 1943. During the campaign, it was commanded by Lieutenant General George Patton. Did your grandfather ever mention anything about Sicily?

I'd say that after Sicily, he was transferred to England. He wasn't part of the 7th anymore but he was still allowed to wear his former unit's patch on his right sleeve because he was in combat with them. Like I said in my other post, the patch worn on the right sleeve is the former unit and the patch on the left sleeve is the current unit.

There are service stripes and overseas service bars. Each service stripe denotes 3 years of service. The following picture represents 15 years of service.



Each overseas service bar denotes six months of service outside of the CONUS. I am guessing that these are the ones you are talking about since your grandfather had 4 which represents 2 years of service, 1943-1945.



I'm not sure what the other symbol you are talking about is. It is most likely the Ruptured Duck which was given upon discharge for honorable service.

Hello. thanks for writing back. I think you are right on the stripes. he has 4 horizontal stripes on the left sleeve, two years service.

I also think you are right about the ruptured duck. I just learned about that today.

As far as Sicily goes, there is some confusion in the family. My uncle, the oldest son of my grandfather, does not remember Grandpa mentioning Italy. he thinks that he went straight from training in North Carolina to Britian. However, my aunt says he did mention Italy. So I am uncertian now. We are haveing a family cookout Sunday and I am going to pick peoples brains about Grandpa.

What does this say about the 7th patch. It doesn't seem likely to me that he would have been assigned to the 7th if he went straight to Britain. Also, he enlisted in May of 43. He was still in NC in July. I assume that he probably shipped out in late July 43 or August. Would that leave time for transportation overseas to Italy, serve there as a motor pool driver/mechanic, then transfer to England to prepare equipment for D-Day?

The patch on the lower right sleeve is the Meritorious Unit Service patch.

Rob

If he wasn't there in time for Sicily, he still would have been there in time for the invasion of the Italian mainland.

When you contacted the Archives, did they tell you all of his records got burned in the fire?

Yes. I recieved a form with his service number, rank, dates of enlistment but no unit designation or assignments.

We found his discharge at the courthouse! He arrived in England 18 Jan 44. The unit listed is the 997th FA BN. I am having trouble finding that unit. I am assuming that he may have been in more than one unit in the two years. Would this be his last duty unit on his discharge? He is listed as automotive mechanic (014)

He is listed in the Rhineland Campaign G033WD45.

He received the good conduct medal and the European African Middle Eastern Service Ribbon.

The concensus among family members is that he said that he helped get vehicles prepared for D-day while in England. Also that he seemed to spend a good bit of time as a driver for HQ types.

One picture we have of him shows him sitting in an MP jeep. He wrote on the back Co. B 79th M_ BN, May 1945. I'm not sure if it is MP or MN or what. Could it have been MN for maintenance?

We know for sure that he was in Basencon and stayed the night there. We have a postcard on the building that he stayed in. I am assuming that this would have been in September 44.

Thanks again for your help so far. Does any of this new information help?

Rob

Rob,

The 997th Field Artillery Battalion was attached to the 69th ID. Did you find his DD-214? If so, the unit mentioned should be his last duty assignment.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/documents...b/69ID-ETO.htm

G033WD45 means that the campaign was authorized by General Order 33 of the War Department in 1945.

Army Good Conduct Medal

European/African/Middle Eastern Campaign Medal

Does that picture show any writing on the front of the Jeep?

Hey Rob,

Your grandfather arrived in theatre on the 18th of January 1944. Alright well, he definitely wasn't in Italy. The 7th U.S. Army after Sicily remained in Sicily and was under their new commander Gen. Patch. They also had elements in Corsica and Sardinia which is where of course the latter S. France Landings would be staged from. Hence why the 7th U.S. Army finds itself in Besacon, France in late 1944.

If he was in Italy he'd have been under Gen . Mark Clark and the U.S. 5th Army. It was the U.S. 5th and British 8th Armies that made the push up the boot of Italy from Sept. 1943 to May 1945.

Now, as for him coming ashore D-Day +10? YES! He was "Corp." level Field Artillery. Since they didn't have a lot of the M1 8" In. Heavy FA pieces to go around, the U.S. Army reserved them for corps level support artillery(they were only divied out by ETO HQ). If the divisional level artillery wasn't enough to do the job, they called in corps level support. Basically, its like calling in the heavy hitters.

U.S. 69th Infantry Division, U.S. 3rd Army:
Btry B, 997th FA Bn (8" How) 17 Apr 45-19 Apr 45
Btry B, 997th FA Bn (8" How) 23 Apr 45-25 Apr

Now as to how your grandfather received two different patches for serving in one unit. Now his uniform is commencerate with post WWII. There were guys wearing patches on both shoulders in mid-late 1945, before it was official to wear the patch of the unit you served in prior, to the new unit your were then assigned too. However, heres how your grandfather got the 7th U.S. Army patch you'll love this. He wasn't attached during the war as much as he was after the war.

Your grandfather had the ETO HQ patch for his service in the Corp. level field artillery. He received the U.S. 7th Army patch after the war when he didn't have enough points to be sent home he stayed for a short time in the occupation army in Germany. However, during that time the U.S. 3rd Army was inactivated from service and sent back stateside but, he was left there. Like many in the U.S. 3rd Army, a lot of those without the proper amount of points to go home were sent to the U.S. 7th Army that was left for occupation duty from 1945-1946. So, his old unit patch was moved to his right shoulder as his new U.S. 7th Army patch was placed to his left shoulder for his current unit assignment. As for the four hash marks he would have had to of stayed in the U.S. Army until 1954. If memory serves me correct I believe the 7th U.S. Army stayed in Germany, so thats probably where he stayed for the duration of this time in service but, he could have been sent to Korea!? I don't know, I'm not really up todate on the Korean conflict, you'd have to do more digging to find that out.

As for the postcard a LOT of GI's went sightseeing after the war was over and he might have simply stayed there in that particular room he circled while he was out sightseeing in Europe during mid-late1945-early 1946...

Hope this helps you out....

Regards,
MARNE

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

Thanks for all the info! I am printing it out now to absorb. My Grandfather shipped back toward the US on 7 Dec 45 and arrived US 20 Dec 45 according to his discharge. The stripes were the horizontal stripes and not the diagonal ones for years of service.

I am sure I will have more questions once I reread your info. Thanks again.

Rob

Outstanding work Marne. You put the pieces together that I couldn't. Good job pal. [img]graemlins/salute.gif[/img]

Thanks guys,

I had kind of a special interest in his grandfathers history because his grandfather and my uncle are not too dissimiliar. His grandfather was [ETO HQ] 997th Field Artillery, Corps. Level, while my uncle was 832nd Amphibious Group, Corps. Level [MTO HQ]. Overall, it was a VERY interesting history that his grandfather had. The whole sightseeing aspect kind of came to me as my uncle did the same thing right after the war was over. My uncle finished out in Salzburg, Austria an went sightseeing from Marseille, France.

My uncle has told me numerous times about how they rented out 12 Harleys WLA's and made a few bucks to sightseeing GI's and they went themselves to see, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Germany...he said they went all over God;s green Earth!..LOL...

Anywas, it wasn't easy, I had to look through a LOT of U.S. 7th Army stuff to find their deactivation date, I knew the 3rd Army had been deactivated earlier than the 7th Army. However, I have a lot of material dealing with the U.S. 7th Army as I'm a big 3rd ID historian and they were assigned VI Corps., 7th Army.

It was really fun though to do the research, it was kind of like being a detective. Put all the pieces together an it just all adds up!

Regards,
MARNE

P.S.....

Rob,
Did your grandfather have two or four overseas bars? If he came into theatre in April 18th, 1944 and was there till December 7th, 1945....he should only have three hash marks as he was only "in theatre" for about eighteen months...But, then again if he has four, they might have given him his fourth mark since he was within his fourth 6 month period but, I've never heard of that. However, it is totally possible!

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

There are four overseas bars.

Should I assume the 997th was attached to different units of the 3rd Army as needed? Are there sources I could research to find these attachments? There doesn't seem to be much online.

All the information is making sense so far except for the stories about hauling supplies. I read somewhere that the Red Ball Express pulled guys from all kinds of units to get the supplies moving. Is it likely that he may have done that?

I find the fact that he was assigned to an artillery unit mind boggling because I was in a National Gaurd Artillery unit for several years and he never told me he was in an artillary unit.

So you guys think he would have been with the 997th the whole time he was overseas?

Hey Marne. Is that a real gun? Do you sleep in those tents. You gonna really eat that?

Rob Gorrell
Logan's Company
Brigage of the American Revolution.

Hey Rob,

I would say its possible but, as far as corps. level artillery is concerned. According to all of the evidence as to who all was assigned and attached to said divisions, it looks like the 997thFA Bn. was only attached at any time to the 69th Inf. Division. On the other hand though, I have only heard of them being used a few times. So, needless to say they weren't called up often so that has to be taken into account also.

However, running supplies could mean a lot of things, he could have been running supplies for the battery....etc...you never know. For him to be effective in a transportation company with deuce and a halfs he would have to be quaified to drive them. Just like during WWII you would have to be qualified just to drive a simple Jeep. So, I'd look through his papers and find out to see if he was. If not then I'd say its highly unlikely and with that I'd assume he'd havemeant he ran supplies for the battery only.

Listening to most of what you have stated I'd say he was probably assigned to the 997th FA Bn. for the duration of the war and after.

Hey Rob. ROCK OF THE MARNE!, M1903 Ready(locked and loaded), foxholes are the way to go!, C-rats...its whats for dinner!!

Sgt. J. Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

PS...Do you know John Pagano of the 17th(Rev War)? He out of Richmond, Virginia?

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

I don't know the name but we have probably crossed paths. I do more of the civilian thing. I joke around around and say that my persona is a civilian malitaman that avoids drill at all costs.

Thanks for the information. I really have not studied WWII that much. Most of my library ends at about 1800 AD. yeah, another excuse to buy books!

Any reccomendations? I am currently reading The Duel for France, 1944.

Here is a photo of him in a jeep.
http://twigchair.com/Quickstart/Imag...pa_in_jeep.jpg

I cannot figure out how to get the photo on screen directly. How do you do that?

Hey Rob,

Thats an AWESOME photo of you grandfather! I'll say this that Jeep as some point was probably in Italy. Notice the ring and star on the quater panel? In NW European theatre you don't see that marking too much they're there but, not in great quantities.

I'll try and post a pick of my uncle in a bit. I'l have to scan it in...

I hear ya, I used to do CW living history and, I still do from time to time. However, WWII is just a great release from the geometric lines of the CW as well as just letting the enemy take pot shots at you as your lined up en mass. I have a pretty good mixture of books on both gentre's...

Some great recommendations for WWII books? Here ya go:

MTO:
"An Army At Dawn" by Rick Atkinson
"Battle For Rome" by Robert Katz
"To Hell and Back" by Audie Murphy
"Cassino" by Fred Majdalany
"Up Front" by Bill Mauldin
"Brave Men" by Ernie Pyle
"Grasshopper Pilot" by Julian W. Cummings

ETO:
I don't really have anything major on the ETO as I'm mostly an MTO and PTO guy but, there are tons of great books on that particular theatre of war.

PTO:
"30 Seconds Over Tokyo" by Ted Lawson
"Semper Fi Mac" by Henry Berry
"Baa Baa Black Sheep" by Greg "Pappy " Boyington
"Ghost Soldiers" by Hampton Sides
"Return of the Enola Gay" by Paul W. Tibbets

These are just some of the great WWII books that I have in my collection that I really enjoy but, this will also give you a great start in learning more about the Second World War.

Regards,
MARNE

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

OK. Here is the next problem. He arrived in England in Jan. of 44. the 69th did not get there until December of 44. So I don't know what unit to place him in during that time period before the 69th arrived. Also, the 69th website lists B Btry being attached. Do we assume that A Btry was also attached? Would each Btry have a motorpool at that time?

We have not found his DD214 yet. I really don't think we will. However, some relatives think there are some more papers that we haven't found so I have not completely given up on the 214.

Would the DD214 list his intial units before the 977th. I know that my DD214 lists my training unit as well as permanent unit. but I don't know what a WWII era 214 looks like.

Rob