Hello there. I am researching the German and American armies of WW2 for my a Real Time Strategy game I am making called Flak88.

At this point, I am confused as to how a Kompanie would be set up. I am trying to find out how many squads (Gruppes) there would be (min to max), how man men there would be in each squad, what each squad is for, what types of squads there are, what weapon each man from each type of squad would be assigned, etc.

Right now, having assumed some things, I came up with these:

Kompanie (Company): 3-7 Krug
Zug (Platoon): 3-7 Gruppe
Gruppe (Group/Squad): 6-10 men

However, right now I'm stuck on what each gruppe should have, what types of gruppes there are, etc.

Any help and guidence would be appreciated,

Thanks!

Hey,

Heres the levels for the U.S. Army of WWII....

The Soldier (1) soldier
Detachment (half-squad) (6) soldiers
Squad (12) soldiers
Platoon (46) officers and soldiers (3) squads
Company (186) officers and soldiers (3) rifle platoons and (1) heavy weapons platoon
Battalion (600-800) officers and soldiers (4) Companies(ex. Able, Baker, Charlie and Dog Companies would comprise, 1st Battalion...etc...)
Regiment (2,000-2,500) officers and soldiers (10-12) Companies(three full battalions)
Brigade (7,500-8,000) officers and soldiers (3) Regiments
Division (15,000-20,000) officers and soldiers (3) Infantry Regiments, (4) Field Artillery Battalions, (1) Tank Battalion, (1) Tank Destroyer Battalion,(1) Combat Engineering Battalion also including the other support units comprising the division
Corps. (30,000-50,000) officers and soldiers (3) divisions(later in the Second World war the number was increased to (5) divisions)
Army (90,000-150,000) officers and soldiers (3) Corps.

Hope this helps....

Regards,
MARNE

[ 19. July 2006, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: MARNE ]

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

Each army had differing structures and numbers based on the timeframe within the conflict, troop availability and function. I have found that in my experience (and I have worked on WWII PC games before), attempting to model reality exactly is often bad for gameplay. As long as you have a decent relationship to reality and focus more on game balance things seem to work out.

Good luck on tha game, do you have a website for Flak88 SandFire1on1?

Moved to info requests.

__________________

WWII Forums Rogues Gallery - send in your photo!
Comments, questions or feedback? Contact me at

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." Socrates

Marne, I'm looking for things for a Kompanie, which is the german version of a company. Additionally, it is not the number of troops I am looking for, but the weapons that are available to the types of squads, what the types of squads are, etc. Thank you though.

Otto, yes I do understand this, however, I believe that the best way to find what types of soldiers you are going to allow the user to control is to find all of them first and THEN exclude. I do have a website for it (sorry, right now it's pretty lame 'cause I'm spending more time on making the game instead of the web), which is SFE.FreeHostia.com.

Thanks for the interest.

EDIT: Flak88 will be listed as Imperia until I figure out what the name will be.

[ 19. July 2006, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: SandFire1on1 ]

My bad there...the way you made it sound, sounded as if you needed both armies....sorry [img]redface.gif[/img]

Regards,
MARNE

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

Well, actually, if you don't mind, I WILL need both, so, you can post the same thing here for the american side. Their weapon assignments, what kind of squads they had, etc., just like what I'm asking about with the Kompanies.

Thanks!

U.S. Company level weapons....easy...

As in the prior post, per company in a WWII U.S. Army Companys you have 186 officers and enlisted personnel...

You have 3 rifle platoons with 1 heavy weapons platoon.

So per each rifle platoon you have the following weapons applicable to each person in the squads within each of the three rifle platoons....hers a diagram which applies to each of the three companies...

*This is per the pre-WWII TO&E

Officers:
Capt.: M-1 Carbine / M1911A1 Colt .45 / Company Commander
1st Lt.: M-1 Carbine / M-1911A1 Colt .45 / Platoon Leader
1st Sgt.: M-1 Rifle / M-1911A1 Colt .45 / Company 1st Sgt.

Enlistedmen:
1st Squad
Sgt.:Squad Leader / Thompson / M1911A1 Colt .45
Cpl.: Assiatant Squad Leader / M-1903 Springfield
Pfc.: Squad Automatic Rifleman / Browning Automatic Rifle
Pfc.: Assistant Squad Automatic Rifleman / U.S. Rifle Cal. 30
Pvt.: Rifleman / U.S. Rifle Cal. 30
Pvt.: Rifleman / U.S. Rifle Cal. 30
Pvt.: Rifleman / U.S. Rifle Cal. 30
Pvt.: Rifleman / U.S. Rifle Cal. 30
Pvt.: Rifleman / U.S. Rifle Cal. 30
Pvt.: Rifleman / U.S. Rifle Cal. 30
Pvt.: Rifleman / U.S. Rifle Cal. 30
Pvt.: Rifleman / U.S. Rifle Cal. 30

Heavy Weapons Squad:

This set up applies to all the squads per the heavy weapons platoon

1st Lt.: M-1 Carbine / M1911A1 Colt .45 / Platoon Leader

1st Squad
Sgt.: Thompson/81mm Mortarman
Pvt.: Assistant 81mm Mortarman
Cpl.: M-1903/81mm Mortarman
Pvt.: Assistant 81mm Mortarman
Pfc.: .50 Cal. M2 Machine Gunner
Pvt.: Assistant .50 Cal. M2 Machine Gunner
Pvt.: .50 Cal. M2 Machine Gunner
Pvt.: Assistant .50 Cal. M2 Machine Gunner
Pfc.: M1A1 Bazooka Man
Pvt.: Assistant M1A1 Bazooka Man
Pvt.: M1A1 Bazooka Man
Pvt.: Assistant M1A1 Bazooka Man

Okay, so this is pretty much what you entire Regular U.S. Army Company looks like. You have 3 Rifle Platoons with 3 Squads each like the diagram above. Then you have 1 Heavy Weapons Platoon with 3 Squads situated like that of which is posted above.

Hope this helps!

Regards,
MARNE

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

Yes that is EXACTLY what I wanted... now I need one for the german side.

Oh, and what about special ops? What kind of configurations do we have goin' on there?

Thanks again!

Ranger Battalions...Airborne Regiments...etc... are all based on this TO&E....

By the by for everyone out there who may not know what TO&E means....

Table of Organization and Equipment

Also take into account this TO&E is as if there was a perfect organization of the unit and weaponry which didn't exactly happen perfectly for all units. Some got a hold of weapons they weren't suppose too...

One substitution is for the Airborne Companies is that Airborne Paratroopers didn't have B.A.R.'s enmass they substituted M1919A6 .30 Cal. light machine guns to make up for the lack of B.A.R. firepower.

Regards,
MARNE

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

So... where do flamethrowers and specialty weapons come in? Weren't there squads that were better at some things than others, like the heavy support f squad? I need some diversity in the game, but of course, it still needs to be realistic.

So, I was thinking that the user would buy a standard squad, customize it, and then add it to a platoon. If the user doesn't decide to add it to the platoon with the proper components, then it loses morale for each unit missing. So, we'll use that TO&E you provided as the template. Though, first I think we should try to make the TO&E to the bare minimum (if this was the average arrangement, how can we make it worse off so the user has to upgrade it).

Now.. after having a bare minimum squad, what can we use as the upgrades weapons/equipment?

Well....the flamethrower fall into those units which needed it most. In some cases...this entails terrain, size of enemy forces...etc...

However, in a standard rifle company the flamethrower would be under the heavy weapons platoon. The flamethrower is a late war weapon so it doesn't see the battlefield until at least late 1944 - early 1945 enmass.

As for one squad being more specialized than another is one that got me into trouble with "Airborne Lovers" of the WWII Reenactors Forum they'd didn't like being called "ordinary"...they claim to be "elite." Their not. All units of the U.S. Army with acception to the 1st Special Service Force and the 10th Mountain Division had exactly the same training with slight deviations thats all. So all U.S. Army Infantrymen were trained the same to say the least.

The 1st SSF were taught long distance marching and mountain operation as was the 10th Mountain Div.. The Rangers long distance marching, concealment and to make use of their small numbers to overwhelm the enemy. Airborne everything same as a "leg" infantrymen with exception to the "jumps." Which any infantryman can do if you put your boot in his butt and push him out. However, during WWII all airborne troopers were volunteers. However, if you think about it so were the vast majority of "leg" infantryman.

So, yes one squad can be more efficient time-wise, job-wise than another but, are they better than another because of training? no.

Regards,
MARNE

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

See here for the German side.

Cheers!

__________________

Alright, now that I've learned like a mother, I did some thinking of how complicated I want this project to be (not very!), and I've come up with this list, which will be used for both the americans and the germans. No, it does not include any tanks or any vehicles of any kind, which I may add later or as an expasion. However, my idea was to completely finish an RTS of any kind, and I think this will do justly!

Here's my list:


Stormtrooper Squad
-------------------
1 Sergeant
9 Stormtrooper

Ranger Squad
-------------
1 Sergeant
9 Riflemen

Machinegun Squad
-------------------
1 Sergeant
2 Machinegunner
7 Riflemen

Flamethrower Squad
-------------------
1 Sergeant
3 Riflemen
6 Flametroopers

Supply Squad
-------------
1 Sergeant
2 Stormtrooper
7 Supplier


Command Post; Morale upgrades, special attacks
Barracks; Houses X soldiers, and lets you train those that have died (which are respawned here)
Munitions Cache;Refills munitions for soldiers within a certain range
Medical Center; Heals soldiers within a certain range
Wall; Keeps people out
pillbox; Shoots things to death

Sergeant; SMG, 8x Magazine, 2 Grenades
Riflemen; Rifle, 8x Clip
Stormtrooper; SMG, 8x Magazine, 2 Grenades
LMG Operator; LMG, Pistol, 4x Magazine
Flametrooper; Flamethrower, 2x flametank
Supplier; Rifle, 20x Refill


Tell me whatcha think!

and, if the 6 flametroopers seems a bit rediculous, I read it at wikipedia:

"The British and French tested flamethrower systems but soon abandoned them. The German army continued to deploy them throughout the war and they were used on over three hundred occasions, usually in teams of six flamethrowers."

I'm a Reg. Infantry kind of guy but, not bad! I think it'll work great!

Regards,
MARNE

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)

While I've avoided getting into this question up to now (It's a big can of worms, complex to answer and, would require alot of time on my part) here are a few comments and notes:

The US infantry company in 1944 had 197 men in it. It consisted of three line platoons, a weapons platoon, a AM&S platoon and, a headquarters.

The line platoons had a headquarters section and three squads of 12 men each. Officially, each squad had 11 M-1 rifles and a BAR assigned. But, the company HQ had 12 Thompson SMGs for general distribution so it was common for some squad leaders to have one of these instead, often based on personal preference.
The squad also typically had one or two riflemen carrying a rifle grenade attachment and rifle grenades. Four attachments were officially provided but usually only one or two were retained.
The weapons platoon had 2 .30 and one .50 machineguns and three 60 mm mortars in it. The crew for each weapon was typically 6 men (generalizing here). As the company also had several jeeps with trailers available this platoon normally had an abundance of ammunition available.
The company also had and SCR 300 "Walkie-Talkie" radio and about half a dozen SCR 589 (?) "Handi-talkies" avialable. Veteran units often used the 60 mm in semi-indirect support as a battery with the platoon commander directing fire.
Battalion often would attach 2 to 4 .30 water cooled machineguns as necessary for missions to line companies as well. An FO team or personnel familiar with calling fire support were usually available too.
Both the headquarters and AM&S platoon have an abundance of extra bodies (about a dozen) available for replacments and extra duties.
On flamethrowers: In the US Army these were held by Chemical Corps troops at either division or corps level and only distributed as necessary to units. Where units were to be issued this equipment the Chemical Corps personnel would hold training sessions with the troops assigned to use the flamethrowers. In most normal circumstances flamethrowers would not be available.
Rangers: The battalion has 5 or 6 companies rather than 3. But, the companies are only about 100 to 125 men each. They are armed as other infantry are except that at battalion there is a pool of weapons like bazookas, submachineguns, machineguns, and even Boys anti-tank rifles available for specific missions.
Paratroops (glider troops are orgainzed as regular infantry) and armored infantry are orgainzed differently.

On the German side, the standard squad is 9 to 12 men (usually tending towards 9) with a squad leader with an SMG, a machinegun and, the balance with K98 rifles. There are 3 or 4 squads in a platoon and the 3 or 4 platoons in a company. The company HQ is relatively sparse and usually has about 6 to 10 men in it. A supply section of up to 13 men and one to three wagons might also be present.
Companies also have a HMG section with 2 or 4 HMG (the MG 34 on the tripod mount). Some companies may have 2 short 81mm mortars present but this is rare.
By early 1944 the MP 43/44 starts to show up in squads. By late 44 a squad is about 50 - 50 MP 43/44 and K98. The MP 40 is retained only if already in use otherwise it is replaced with an MP 43/44.
When necessary a radio may be provided by battalion but it is not always present.
Fire support in normal circumstances is provided by battalion 81mm mortars but little else is usually available quickly (as opposed to the US having a battery of 105mm or more along with some 81mm at battalion).
Flamethrowers: When available these are in the Pionere Abteilung of the division. Typical establishment would be about 6 total. These would be operated by the Pionere who are specialist assault troops.
Panzergrenadier and motorized infantry usually have the same orgainzation with two LMG per squad vice one.


On ammo: The US company typically had each man carrying about 100+ rounds for his personal weapon (most veteran troops stuffed as much ammo as possible in their pockets etc), along with one 60 mm mortar round per man (dropped off where the mortars set up) and often a 50 round belt of MG ammo. 4 men in the squad also carry 2 to 4 extra BAR magazines each along with the 4 to 6 the BAR gunner has. The weapons platoon generally relies on the jeeps to bring forward more ammo. The MGs could fire as much as 1000 or more rounds in an engagement. The 60's frequently went through hundreds of rounds too.
The rifle grenade men had 3 choices on rounds. A HE round using the standard Mk II pineapple frag, a shorter ranged field improvisation using a 60mm mortar round on the same clip or, the M9A1 HEAT round against tanks (prefered to the bazooka by many units since it prevented carrying an extra weapon). Bazookas with limited ammo were also usually available in the HQ section.

The German company had the same loadout for its individual men about 100 rounds per man. Each man also carried 200+ MG rounds in belts or cans for the machinegunner. Of course, this is also dependent on what is available.

A battalion in the U.S. Army on any level during WWII with exception to Rangers and Airborne "Light Infantry" is 4 companies.

1st Battalion:
Able Company
Baker Company
Charlie Company
Dog Company

2nd Battalion:
Easy Company
Fox Company
George Company
Howe Company

3rd Battalion
Item Company
King Company
Love Company
Mike Company

Regards,
MARNE

__________________

"ROCK OF THE MARNE"
Sgt. James Dunigan III
Able Co., U.S. 30th Infantry Regiment
U.S. 3rd Infantry Division(Reenacted)