Info on B-17 losses needed

Skipper · #1 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 11:13 AM

One for the USAAF specialists:

Does anyone have details about the four B-17s bombers + one Mustang fighter lost on april 1944 above france? I would particulary appreciate, the names of the crews, Bg+ FS and possibly crash sites.
Groups would be a minimum so I could google for crews or others.

I have the list with the Germans who claimed the aircrafts but I don't know which units thye belonged to:

Mission Lyon/BRON date april 30 1944.

B-17 42107012 92BG 407FS. crew? crashed s.e Orleans
B-17 crashed Aubigny
B-17 crashed s.e Orleans
B-17 crashed s.e Orleans
P-51 crashed s.e Orleans

they all crashed between 11.50 and 12.05 and were all shot down by Jg2 fighters. The germas lost 4 fighters (I have those details already)

Slipdigit · #2 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 12:53 PM

Skipper,

I am finding multiple websites that list only one B-17 lost on that day.

WWII Combat Chronology : April 1944
Eighth Air Force Historial Society

Found this page, could be one of the FG that supported the mission
4th Fighter Group Tidbits

Follow the dates down. Gives name of the pilot lost.

I haven't had much time to look more.

Amrit · #3 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipper67

B-17 42107012 92BG 407FS. crew? crashed s.e Orleans

From: ::Warbird-Central.com :: Warbird Information Database

Quote:

42- 107012 (92nd BG, 407th BS) lost Apr 30, 1944, France. MACR 4466

No other B17 was lost on this date that fits your description. I've also checked the other series too.

You can also do a date search for Missing Air Crew Reports (MACR) here:

Army Air Forces: Missing Air Crew Reports

To obtain a MACR report try here (though there are a number of other sites that sell them):

Miltary Aircraft Accident Report Ordering Information

Amrit · #4 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 02:02 PM

Skipper,

this may help:

Which Allied unit made the attack? - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Skipper · #5 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 03:17 PM

Thank you all for the multiple answers 4th FG was certainly amongst the little friends.

I should have stressed that these were luftwaffe claims, not allied loss claims. They are certainly overclaimed (4 vs 1! )

I therefore presume that B-17 42107012 from 92BG 407FS was the only one lost. Does anybody have the names of the crew? I will try to get MACR 4466 too.
Also I have pinpointed at least two Mustangs, there may be more.

Amrit · #6 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 03:23 PM

From the aforementioned Army Air Forces: Missing Air Crew Reports for 30th April

Amrit · #7 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 03:32 PM

I found out the pilots name from:

Translated version of http://www.b17database.de/data.php?block=94

Quote:

SHOT down by fighter on mission ton of Lyon, France and crashed into the near. 1 EVD; 6 KIA; 3 POW

And I've attached the listing for him from the American Battle Monuments Commission

Slipdigit · #8 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipper67

I therefore presume that B-17 42107012 from 92BG 407FS was the only one lost.

I couldn't find a listing of the crew members

Quote:

407FS

The 407th was a Bomb Squadron, not a fighter squadron.

Skipper · #9 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 03:52 PM

wow amrit you are working fast!
now I have 13 losses to check! and the name of the pilot of 42-107012. The trouble is that reports say it crashed near Lyon and I have another site that is 400km away near Montargis. It' either another B-17 or one of the sites is wrong. Thank you again, I have an appointement on Monday with a man who the fight 63 years ago and knows two crash sites , so he"ll probably give me even more hints.

Skipper · #10 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 03:54 PM

oops sorry, Slipdigit, I mispelled, it was of course a Bomb Squadron.

Amrit found the pilot's name: P. Jack H. Campbell, who is buried at Epinal, France.

Slipdigit · #11 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipper67

oops sorry, Slipdigit, I mispelled, it was of course a Bomb Squadron.

Amrit found the pilot's name: P. Jack H. Campbell, who is buried at Epinal, France.

I figured you knew it and jsut threw it there to see if we were paying attention.

Glad you got part of the crew, hope you find the rest.

Concerning the unsubstantiated claims of kills by the German pilots, I wonder how many of the extra 3 planes claimed were badly damaged enough to be write-offs, if any?

Skipper · #12 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 04:26 PM

the records say 8 bombers were damaged, but it does not say they were written off. however I have 3 others Macrs for lost B-17s the same day. I have to check whether these were on the European theather and on the same mission, as they can be false alerts. They are 42-32014 (92BG) 42-5418 (483BG) and 42-31805 (463BG).

Amrit · #13 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipper67

the records say 8 bombers were damaged, but it does not say they were written off. however I have 3 others Macrs for lost B-17s the same day. I have to check whether these were on the European theather and on the same mission, as they can be false alerts. They are 42-32014 (92BG) 42-5418 (483BG) and 42-31805 (463BG).

Thought I'd save you some time:

42-32014 crashed near Bologna
Discussed - 42-32014 Pappy Yokum

42-5418 crashed near Vanette
Discussed - B-17 [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

42-31805 SHOT down by flak. Ditched in Mediterranean. 4 POW; 5 RTD
Translated version of http://www.b17database.de/data.php?block=72

Skipper · #14 (**permalink**) July 27th, 2007, 05:12 PM

That does save time indeed. So now the losses are one B-17 (42-107012) crash site unknown (two different sources suggested = near Lyon or near Olreans) + 8 B-17s damaged + several Mustang fighters crashed (one in Normandy, one near Lyon) + one P-38.
I am still looking for the crew. Thanks Amrit, I appreciate your help.