Yep. "Gott mit uns", IIRC, was on Wehrmacht buckles, and pre-dates the Nazis by well over a hundred years.

My Mistake Stefan. So where did I see the" Mitt uns" (without Gott) inscription? was it Wehrmacht then ?

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Thanks for the confirmtion Schizuki but the buckle I mentionned did only have two words "mit uns" without the first word "Gott" that had been used for decades.
it was maybe an abandonned or unofficial project.

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so are we talking the national socialist demo party- Nazi's or the Heer ? there is a difference

Found it Erich! I have found a picture of the "Mit Uns" inscription on an enamel plate that used to be put on the houses of party members. So we are talking about Nazi party members. if I find another example of this "Godless" use of the old inscription I will post it for you.

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Erich, I think we are using Nazis in this sense to mean 'followers of Nazi doctrine and ideology,' the problem is that it's pretty difficult to pin down Nazi doctrine and ideology to any real specifics.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

In the movie Stalingrad just before entering the city the priest says that " God is on our side". I always wondered who´s side God is on if both claim the same...

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"If god be for us, who could be against us?"

Romans 8:31-39

It does make you think though

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Sort of like global Warming today.


Well you can make an argument that it was a dictatorship, but since the cornerstone or Communism and Liberalism for that matter, is the dictatorship of the proletariot, then I find it hard to give credibility to your statement that it wasn't truly communist.

Wasn't the Five year Plan the brainchild of Stalin who was the government?
And in Germany the Nazis allowed the War materials Industry to make their profits and later infiltrated that industry to try and create their own, SS run with camp labor.

The Germans, Nazis were Christian, not all of them, many agnostic, many renounced their religion for favor in the SS, many practised in secret. Bavaria was predominantly Catholic. Parts of the North, Protestant, Lutheran.

If you ask if they acted as good Christians my answer would be no.

Yet the Godless communist ideal worked pretty well when motivating men under arms.

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Coir a glaive

Nemo me impune lacessit

Stalin knew how to motivate in all ways: Mother Russia, religion....

Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During World War II, the Church was allowed a revival as a patriotic organization, after the NKVD had recruited the new metropolitan, the first after the revolution, as a secret agent. Thousands of parishes were reactivated until a further round of suppression in Khrushchev's time.

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Good post, shows that both Communism and Nazism used Christianity for their own desires. Churches in Russia were opened when Moscow was under threat of being overrun. Heers units had Chaplins, not sure of the SS.

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Coir a glaive

Nemo me impune lacessit

Or indeed the 'war on terror' eh?

Think about certain basic elements of communism, equality (people in the soviet union were by no means equal, those with power used it to gather wealth and lived a better quality of life than the workers), worker control of the means of production (the workers of the soviet union had very little of this), the ability to be accomplished in whatever sphere you choose and apply yourself to (again, this was never the case in Soviet Russia). There are so many ways in which Soviet Russia failed to achieve a truly 'communist' state, hell, as you pointed out they had a dictator, it wasn't a dictatorship of the prolitariat (an autocratic system where the working class have absolute power) but a despotism. Not a communist idea at all, the theories and principles were abused by those in power.

Sorry HO, didn't make myself clear enough, POS stated that economically Nazism and Democracy were similar EXCEPT that under the Nazis the economy was state controlled. I simply pointed out that a) that is a pretty massive difference and b) isn't totally true because as you say the level of state control over industry in Nazi Germany was limited in many ways.

I think though that is more to do with the historical motivations of Russian soldiers and the different kind of patriotism you encounter rather than religious issues.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

I guess you don't mind your London subways being bombed and don't remember the dead horses and people in the streets from the IRA.

For that matter the bastards that were caught recently, weren't they doctors or med students planning something new?


Too bad I don't have the ability to put a sound byte of a record scratch here.

There is no equality in communism.....It is the dictatorship of the worker by a select few. All workers are treated equally bad(exploited) and if they don't like it they are all equally put in gulags. That is defacto communism, if you actually buy that crap Lennin and Marx wrote, then I have a bridge in New York for sale, real cheap, you can send me a check.

Don't say your sorry(Band of Brothers, some brief levity)

Well, I think after awhile it is simply the motivation for survival on both sides of the front.

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Coir a glaive

Nemo me impune lacessit

Sorry, whilst the threat is real the method by which is dealt with is more to do with controlling the population than their safety. I do remember the bombs on the underground, I was sitting reading the reports that reached the civil authorities before they made it to the news, worrying about friends I knew to be there, but frankly none of that tallys with the political endevors of those propogating the WOT, but that's for another thread eh?

And here you demonstrate what you have missed, all that 'crap' Lenin and Marx wrote was the theory of what a communist state would be, any state that doesn't achieve that is therefore by definition not communist, exploitation of the workers is by definition the opposite of communism. Communism is a theory, a state that is not drawn up along the lines defined by the theory is no more communist than Nazi Germany was a democracy!

I prefer Nathan Brittles point of view, even if it is at odds with my British upbringing (a people who apoloise for everything, regardless of who is at fault).

True enough, but I think you may have to meet a few Russian vets to understand where they were coming from.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Websters defines fascism as "a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition." In practice, it was a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalted nation and often race above the individual and that stood for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

Websters defines Communism as "a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism." In practice, it is, and was, and ever shall be --- a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts the collective above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

They are birds of a feather, and completely different animals from Western liberal democracy.

Yup. Hope no one thought I was claiming otherwise...

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Quite, although they did a good line in exploiting or hijacking those of others.

The problem that exists for Communism is that it has never been achieved. It is partly to do with it's complete inability to police itself. For example ,it was not held accountable via the vehicle of democracy.

Communism also had a problem with the liberalisation of the economy. ie it was centrally controlled.

Equally Capitism in it's purest form is also doomed. Whilst , Adam Smiths so-called invisable hand is perfectly capable to setting a value for a can of bake beans it is clearly incapable is revealing the socail value within a nations health or education.

Schizuki's post above is very interesting because some Stalinist Communism Partys within Europe never really saw Fascist as the beast , it's was always international capitalism. Trotskite Partys are not considered Communism but rather extreme leftwing socialists. I think it's fair to say there is a difference.

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"Interesting" that both Stalin and Hitler as the leading figures for communism and nazism considered the Jews the enemy?!

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