|
|  |
 |
Members: 5,595
Threads: 17,271
Posts: 215,162
Online: 243
Newest Member:
Pyrrhus |
|
|
| Information Requests Doing research? Working on a project? Need Help? Ask Here. |

May 14th, 2008, 05:33 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
I am researching the battle for Chenedolle near Vire in Normandy and looking for detailed information and detailed maps and pictures. Actions at Chenedolle, Presles Pavee, Viessoix, Bas Perrier, Haut Perrier, Estry, Roullours are especially interesting.
I am also interested in all aspects of Operation Bluecoat.
All help, leads etc appreciated.
|

May 14th, 2008, 06:29 AM
|
 |
WW2F Veteran
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Way down under
Posts: 1,456
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
Have you tried googling it yet?
__________________
They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget
|

May 14th, 2008, 06:41 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
Yes and seached all sorts of other sites like Flickr.com where there are some amazing Normandy images
|

May 14th, 2008, 09:51 AM
|
 |
WW2F Veteran
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Way down under
Posts: 1,456
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by after the battle
I am researching the battle for Chenedolle near Vire in Normandy and looking for detailed information and detailed maps and pictures. Actions at Chenedolle, Presles Pavee, Viessoix, Bas Perrier, Haut Perrier, Estry, Roullours are especially interesting.
I am also interested in all aspects of Operation Bluecoat.
All help, leads etc appreciated.
|
Quote:
CHÊNEDOLLE/VIESSOIX/BERNIERES-LE-PATRY
Manche - 5 and 9 km east of Vire The Tiger tank stood alone to defend the hill
On 31 July 1944, the VIIIth British Corps seized a bridge across the river Souleuvres. This success enabled the 11st Armoured Division a fast drive southward. General Eberbach, Commander of the Panzer-Korps West obtained the reinforcement of the 9th SS Panzer-Division Hohenstaufen, and the powerful Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 102. On 1st August, the 11st Armoured Division entered Le Beny-Bocage, Vire was at ten kilometers. The next day, a Squadron of the 2nd Household Cavalry reached Presles, east of Burcy. Near Chênedollé, sturmbannführer Weiss Tiger destroyed five British Sherman. On 3 August, engineer SS troops were facing the Guards Division tanks, near Pavée hamlet. On 4 August, the Germans had heavy defensive battle to hold their positions, they launched local counter-attacks. Between Burcy and Chênedollé, an important force composed of elements of the 15th Scottish Division, of the 11st Armoured Division and the Guards Armoured Division was isolated. The British withdrew during the night. On 6 August, struggles were furious near Pavée, the SS captured hill 224 then they were pushed back. On 7 August, a Tiger tank was ambushed on hill of Chênedollé and blew up 14 tanks of the 23rd Hussars. The Germans held the ground from Vire, Chênedollé to estry until 13 August, then they retreated after the failure of the attack on Mortain. Chênedollé, Pavée and Viessoix are liberated.
|
Chênedollé, Viessoix et Bernières-le-Patry en Normandie 1944
a bit on Le Bas Perrier
BBC - WW2 People's War - On the Perrier Ridge, Normandy. Early August 1944
Estry
BBC - WW2 People's War - The Breakout Part 3 by J.E.Davies
operation BlueCoat
Bluecoat
Operation Bluecoat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don;t know if any of that is useful or if it is any good but that is all I can get for now. 
__________________
They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget
|

May 14th, 2008, 10:34 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
On 7 August, a Tiger tank was ambushed on hill of Chênedollé and blew up 14 tanks of the 23rd Hussars.
Thanks very much - thats one of the main bits of interest - there are conflicting reports about the number of tanks it destroyed and whether it was in fact alone.
|

May 14th, 2008, 10:45 AM
|
 |
WW2F Veteran
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Way down under
Posts: 1,456
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
You will always get conflicting information on past history, the best way to get the real facts is to find many sources with the same information, reliable sources of course.
Someone else might have some more information on the battles you are interested in.
__________________
They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget
|

May 14th, 2008, 02:02 PM
|
|
WW2F Veteran
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The Abbey of Thelema.
Posts: 1,852
Salute!: 10
Saluted 11 Times in 7 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
This Google books listing cites Vehicle 134 of 1 Schwere SS Pz.abt 102 as the culprit (also claims 15 lost):
Tigers in Combat 2 - Google Book Search
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the German organisationally inclined could put a name to that vehicles commander?
A little more general stuff on the period & units involved here:
Memorial Montormel - 11th Armoured Division “Taurus Pursuant”
Cheers,
Adam.
__________________
"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.
|

May 14th, 2008, 07:14 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern England
Posts: 291
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
Its one of Will Fey's claims and almost certainly complete bo**ocks.
|

May 15th, 2008, 05:52 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
There certainly seem to be contradictions in his claims.
|

May 15th, 2008, 10:59 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern England
Posts: 291
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
There is nothing other than Will Fey's account.
Read it and see if you believe it.
Then the morning dawned. It ushered in a day which was to bring to our Tiger and its crew the greatest proof of worth
and outstanding success. It was 7 August 1944.
We were still waiting for the grenadiers who were to join the Tigers in the attack that morning; it was to start after a
preparatory artillery fire. The platoons and groups of Pionier-Bataillon 600, comrades from a division of the Heer, had arrived at
our Panzer. They spread out and sought cover in trenches and behind bushes. We waited and waited, but still there was no
artillery salvo to indicate the start of the attack. Hour after hour passed, and then it started, but not on our side. Some pioneers to
our left gave us a tank alert. Shortly after we surveyed the situation from our Tiger. The Shermans rolled out of a wooded area,
down the hill. We spotted ten - twelve - fifteen enemy tanks, between them scout cars, armored personnel carriers with mounted
infantry, and wheeled armored personnel carriers. The whole slope came to life. The distance was approximately 1,200 m. Until
then not a shot had been fired. The scene looked like a tank attack as taught in military schools, everything that was required was
there. The grenadiers watched us. What would we do? They, and their company chief, started to show a certain nervousness. An
Oberleutnant (1st Lt.) climbed onto our Panzer, asking us to open fire. But he had to leave that to our commander. The radio
operator was given a message to send to all: "15 Panzers will attack, with infantry, from the left flank. Open fire at 600 m!"
Immediately, the order by radio came from commander WeilS: "Ruderboot (row boat) to Ofenrohr 3 (stove pipe), start out
immediately. (Ofenrohr 3 was the code name for our Tiger in radio traffic). That was all we needed. The commander ordered the
operator not to acknowledge and to turn off the receiver immediately, from then on we only transmitted.
The enemy tanks arranged themselves and rolled towards us in a wide wedge formation. The distance was still
approximately 800 m. Long before, the loader had readied anti-tank shells. The driver was told, when so ordered, to
immediately let the Panzer roll back over the left track for a few meters while pulling up on the right track. In this way we
brought the front of our Tiger into a favorable defensive position within a few seconds. The comrades with the other field:
post number had something in store for us, and the side of our Panzer, facing them, was too sensitive for that.
Then the time came, 600 m. We maneuvered our Panzer into the desired direction for firing. The gunner had already had
his first target in his sight for some time. It was the tank at the point, exactly in the center of the attacking pack, probably its
leader. The second and third targets were also determined, first its neighbor to the left, then the one to the right. After that
it was to be the Shermans at the extreme left and right. They could have been dangerous if they were able to come around
on our flanks; even a Tiger was vulnerable inside the 400 m range.
Finally, the relief-bringing order came:
"Anti-tank shell - 600 - Fire!" The first shot was wide, realizing this froze us only for a few seconds. "Gun sight 400 -
Fire!" That was a hit. A second shell followed immediately, another hit. Then, the next target: "Tank on the left - Fire!" It
too, took two shells. Within a short time, four Shermans stood in flames on the slope. The enemy then overcame their first
confusion, they stopped and opened fire. We took hit after hit, on the turret, to the front, the tracks. Nuts, bolts, and rivets
whistled through the interior. The Oberleutnant of the grenadiers who had been inside the Panzer until then, jumped out
head over heels, and withdrew with his soldiers. There were to be no more attacks started that day! The radio operator
reported constantly on the development of the battle, in between he found plenty of work for his machine gun. The
commander radioed again: "Withdraw to own lines!" We counted six burning and smoking tanks by then, there had to be an
awful confusion over there! Their infantry dismounted and ran about, looking for cover. Vehicles ran into each other as they
tried to turn around. Then, the seventh and eighth tanks were knocked out. As they were tangled up, our 8.8 had taken aim
and brought about their quick end. They burned out, close to each other,
Was it minutes which had passed, or hours? We did not know. Our loader, the Volga German, strong as an ox, sank to his
knees. Standing the closest to the breech, he had inhaled too much gun powder gas and passed out. And our Panzer took
more and more hits. The loss of the loader caused our operation to stall. The gunner manned the turret MG, while the radio
operator had already worn out the fourth barrel. By then, all the Shermans had zeroed in on us and we had to try to get out
of their range, otherwise they might have found one of our weak spots. "Driver, backwards, march! Halt!" We took another
hit, the Tiger jerked backwards. That was a different caliber, that was a Pak! Smoke drifted inside through the hatches, the
shell had come from the left. We had to act, a second hit landed between the driver's and radio operator's sights and wiped
out the bow MG. The driver took the place of the unconscious loader, there was nobody left to drive! The left track was ripped
off and the Tiger was no longer mobile. Then we spotted the Pak by its muzzle fire, it sat at the far left near a bush. The turret
was turned to 9 o'clock, Albert received quick and accurate directions, a high explosive shell was loaded and then: "Fire!" We
spared three shells for this enemy, then explosions and whirling parts of metal testified to the end of this well-positioned Pak. |
The tank battle continued. We felt neither hunger nor thirst, the fighting demanded all of our concentration. Dripping
sweat our eves reddened we gasped for air in the thick fumes of salpeter. With every shot from our gun, a gray-blue cloud
of smoke came rom the breech. The ventilation system was unable to keep up. Paul lay between Hermann's legs on the
turret mechanism his eyes turned up. We still faced a few Shermans; it was really not easy! While we were firing at the Pak,
two Shermans took aim at us. When we took on the Shermans, the anti-tank guns gave us hell It was a real chore, having to
fight two enemies at once. In the meantime, twelve burning enemy tanks were witness to our battle.
Then the commander radioed, having received the report on our Tiger's inability to move: "Blow up the Panzer, fight your
backwith the crew!" But that was impossible for us. As long as we had one shell left, one round of MG ammunition, we
would not quit this battle and our Panzer! Once more, we remained silent and forgot to acknowledge receipt of this message.
And the tank bartte went on. We took more hits to the turret, the front and the right track, but knocked out two more enemy tanks
Then both MGs failed, we were running out of anti-tank shells. Fourteen Shermans gave up their ghosts and ended their
march towards Berlin prematurely northwest of Vire at noon on a beautifully bright August day. And the whole engagement
took only 30 minutes! But there was more fighting to do! We could not spot any more Shermans on the move or firing but we
thought there had been fifteen attacking Shermans! A gully just ahead of us, covered with trees and bushe, demanded
increased attention. We fired one high explosive shell after another, there were enough targets. Abandoned armored
reconnaisance vehicles and other supply vehicles went up in flames. Half-tracks at full speed, some of them with mounted
anti-tank weapons, so-called stove pipes, were knocked out. The whole slope was covered by dark blue smoke which gently
covered the recent drama. From time to time, tanks blew up with sky-high bursts of flames and deafening noise. The smoke
from the burning vehicles which enveloped the battleground allowed a number of enemy soldiers to escape this inferno alive.
Since we did not know how much longer we would have to stay with our Panzer, and our ammunition had been used up
except for a few shells, we wanted to add to our supplies during the developing break in the fighting The commander
slid down from the Panzer and ran and crawled to get out of the enemy field of vision. Harassing fire had set in. The
enemv slowly zeroed in on our position, having recognized that his attack had faltered at this point.
Completely exhausted , the commander reached a Tiger of our company and tried to attract attention at the dnver's and
radio operator's hatches, both locked because of the steady artillery fire.
Finaly a lid was lifted and the commander was able to make his request for a few anti-tank shells but without success.
There was no explanation why we could not get anything, the hatches remained closed and any further questions remained
unheard. He continued on to the next Tiger, again crawling, running and jumping a few hundred meters. This effort was not
in vain, With an anti-tank shell under the arm, the commander crawled back to his Panzer.
The artillery fire constantly increased in strength. Unfortunately, we sat in the middle of a meadow without cover and took the
first artillery hits to the hull and turret. We learned from one of the last radio messages of the day that Schwab s platoon with
three Tigers was to pull us out with the coming of darkness. But it was to be a long time before night fell. On top of everything
else, our radio packed in under the constant fire. Fighter-bombers circled above us, diving and firing from all barrells on our
brave Tiger which sat, immobile, as if for target practice. Their bombs were too damn close! Was that to be the end? But just
before the next formation flew in, we had a saving thought: smoke candles were placed on the rear and front and we played the
role of a knocked-out, burnt-out Panzer! We had enough of these smoke candles on board and managed to remain unnoticed
for some time Suddenly, we were wide awake again, ripped out of our half-sleep. We heard the familiar rattle of tank tracks
but not from one of our comrades. It came from half-right ahead of us, where the gully flattened into groups of trees and
bushes. We slowly brought our gun around, almost unnoticeably. We aimed it, with the lowest possible elevation, at the cluster
of bushes. We only had two anti-tank shells left, one of them already in the barrel. Our nerves were tensed to he breaking
Was it one tank or two? There were only 100 m between us and the gully. The driver and radio operator sat in the open
hatches ready to bail out. Paul, who had recovered, was holding the second, and last, shell ready in his arms. If these two were
Ifired and missed it would have meant bailing out as quickly as possible. The rattle of tracks and engine noise came ever closer.
Seconds turned into eternity! Maybe, the others did not know that a German Panzer, ready to fire was sitting there. Our other
Tiqers had long since pulled back, and we had been giving off smoke all afternoon. But enough of these thoughts!
Ahead of us the bushes parted. A long, smooth barrel without muzzle brake came into view, no doubt, a Sherman. Then
the curved hull and the turret appeared. "Fire!" Our first shell glanced off and we saw it rise steeply into the sky. Surprising,
the detais one noticed even during such a tense situation. "Aim lower - Fire!" We roared loudly as the shell disappeared
precisely under the barrel, at the base of the turret. As if gripped by an iron fist, the tank stopped with a jerk. A fine column
of smoke growing increasingly denser, rose vertically into the sky. It was the fifteenth tank kill of that day. Counting the tank
knocked out the Previous evening in the same area, the total was sixteen, a whole tank company; not even counting the
|armored cars, reconnaissance vehicles, half-tracks, and other vehicles which were impossible to tally. Despite all these
successes would we be able to hold off the enemy?
It had suddenly turned quiet. We quit talking. We were suddenly indescribably tired, and waited only for the Tigers to pull us out.
We were tnankful and reassured when. suddenly, rocket launchers threw a wall of fire. with an immense roar and whistle,
into the gully and onto the adjoining slope. We thought no-one could live through that.
Just as the last salvos of the rocket launchers had whistled by, exactly as per plan, the three Tiges of Schwab s platoon
showed up and pulled us out. Two Tigers did the pulling, the third provided cover. So we rolled, pulling our tracks behind,
into the dark nignt. After a short stop at the company command post where our chief. Kails congratulated us on our
success we reached Vassy the next morning. But what condition our Tiger was in! Holes, big enough to put one's head in!
The drve wheel with steering mechanism was cleanly shot through. The shell was still stuck in the hull. That was to give the
repair company a few days of welding and patching! But we felt all the more proud and close to our Panzer. The more holes
and scars it had, the more precious it was to us! It was much more than cold metal to us, it was a part of us!
|

May 15th, 2008, 12:14 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
Hmmm... reads like a novel. Where is this text from and is there a link?
I have seen people claiming he has exagerrated his ability and success - this action doesnt seem to have the hype that Wittman got a Villiers Bocage - which is far more provable.
|

May 15th, 2008, 12:16 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Re: Tank battle at Chenedolle August 1944
One thing is true, there was a repair depot at Vassy...
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 01:44 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0 Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright © 2000 - 2007, the World War II Network, all rights reserved.Ad Management by RedTyger
|
 |