I found this in Wikipedia about the Sherman Firefly and wonder if anyone has any sources to back nay of this up?

Sherman Firefly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

Tomcat did you check out the reference that the article gave?
Camouflage of 17-pr Gun Mounted in Sherman Tank"
From Middle East AFV Technical Letter, 26 January 1945


I Liked 'Method B" LOL.

Method B.
A dummy 75mm gun is mounted on the wireless box at the rear of the turret. When the tank is not in action the turret is reversed. The dummy gun is then at the front of the tank and the 17-pr is concealed with foliage behind. Method A can be employed alone, but its use was also recommended in conjunction with Method B to disguise the 17-pr when in action and to reduce visibility of the portion which cannot be covered when the gun is not in action.
17-prs on Sherman tanks are therefore being treated as in Method A whether Method B is employed or not.
A demonstration of both methods was given at RICCIONE on 18 Oct. It was attended by representatives from armoured formations etc., who were asked to state which of the two methods was preferred. Method A met with general approval, whereas reactions to Method B were, as was expected, somewhat varied.
Objections to Method B included the following:-
(a) The danger of both guns being observed.
(b) The possible difficulty, in close country, of rotating the turret in order to bring the 17-pr into action.
(c) The probable adverse effect on confidence of tank crews of moving into action with the turret and 17-pr in the reverse position. Method B, however, was thought good enough to make it worth while manufacturing dummy 75mm guns for use when thought practicable. It was considered that, whatever its limitations might be, it was at least a good method of concealing the identity of the 17-pr Sherman in any concentration area under observation.
50 dummy 75mm guns have been manufactured up to the present date and 24 have so far been fitted.
Copy of a drawing issued to formations showing methods of painting the barrel and fitting of dummy 75mm gun is shown at Appendix "F".

"Method of fixing dummy 75mm gun on rear of turret""Position of 17 pr when not in action"


Sherman Register - Sherman Firefly

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

I've just read New Vanguard 141: Sherman Firefly & it say in there that it was used in Italy if I remember right

Where I'd argue with the Wiki stuff is on this statement:
Anybody who's actually seen a firefly with that wavy silver half barrel camouflage against a rural background will know that it's exceptionally effective at making the long barrel 'disappear'.

Cheers,
Adam.

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

if i were a tanky,i would certainly want the gun pointing in the correct direction anyway.yours,lee.btw hello v.p.

So it does really work then? I know that they used similar zig zagged stripes on the Bismarck to make her look lower in the water before her attempted break out into the Atlantic, but I never knew that is actually worked.


I missed that link mate, I did however see that the above tactics have not been known to be used in action, but I figured that they had to come from somewhere.

I don't understand why they are trying to camouflage the 17pdr in the middle east during 1945? By that the time the war in Europe was well on its way to being won and the North Africian campaign has already be fought and lost. So what was the point of developling that tactic? To hold the stream of Red Army soldiers in the middle east in case of a Soviet and allied war after the capulation of Germany?

__________________
They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

Hi All,
The only reference to Shermans equipped with wooden Barrels are the Sherman OPs (Observation Posts).
the turret of the sherman was equipped with extra radio sets and a large map table in the surret floor. the barrel and gun breach were removed and replaced by a dummy wooden barrel.
There is a picture of one OP sherman in the After the battle - Villers bretneux book, after it had been knocked out by Wittman's tiger.

RAF even used OP shermans in Normandy for calling in Typhoons.

Matt

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Nice video showing the sherman and the firefly differenceYouTube - SHERMAN TANK VERSUS GERMAN TIGER

No thats not a firefly and no thats not a tiger.
Matt

Attached Images

100_2727.jpg (100.2 KB, 4 views)

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looks like the T55 based replica that one Mick Hodgkinson runs around in:
www.tiger-1.org.

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

LOL. When I see things like this the first thing I look at is the chassis. Especially the bogie wheels.

__________________
For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman

Yes its Tiger1's t-55 tiger, it just gives the wrong impression as the real tiger is a lot wider and squatter than the replica ones.

Matt

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Nice site, I it was one thing to read about these vehicles it is another to actually get to ride in them and attempt to relive it, even if they are slightly historically incorrect.


That replica tank dosn't appear to have the interlocking road wheels of the tiger either, but I cant find a good side picture, and she does seem a bit thin and high in the video.

Maybe we need that side by side picture that was posted in another thread of a sherman and a tiger

__________________
They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them. Lest We Forget

Hi Tomcat,
here you go a better comparison.

Matt

Attached Images

	409969459_6e0e809bed.jpg (56.6 KB, 2 views)
	WH2-2ItaP019a.jpg (60.7 KB, 3 views)
	WH2-22BaP001a.jpg (51.0 KB, 2 views)

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Here's a real, restored Tiger 1.

YouTube - TIGER TANK

And a Firefly.

YouTube - Sherman Firefly Kapellen 1

I'm posting restored versions to match the video with the ersatz versions.

tom

Here ya go again tomcat. Thanks to m_kenny again .

__________________
For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman