Hi All, Back in the 70s' I was asked to guide an expedition along the B.C. coast in seach of a WW II Japanese sub base. There were two subs as well as two aircraft fitted with extra fuel tanks hidden in a remote spot on the mainland. This was verified by artifacts brought back from the origional discovery.Unfortunately, the only person knowing the location passed away that winter and along with him the location. I have contacted the DND as well as the Coast Guard reguarding this, but have never recieved a reply as to if this location has ever been found. Has anyone ever heard of this? Any info or help would be appreciated. I know I 26 and I 17 (I believe) were operating in that area, but returned to their motherland before the end of the war. Thanks

I'm not sure what you mean by a sub "base." Obviously there were no basing facilities erected in BC. Do you mean that subs served as base ships for aircraft operating out of the spot in question? What are the artifacts you mention? How do they verify the presence of two subs and two aircraft? I 26 was among the subs that performed reconnaissance in the area, but she did not carry an aircraft at the time, despite accounts stating her plane flew over Seattle.

What were they doing? Operating out of a sheltered cove or something along the lines of the submarine refueling flying boats at French Frigate Shoals to recon Pearl?

"This was verified by artifacts brought back from the origional discovery."

What were the artifacts? Who has them now?

__________________
__________________________________________

“The first lesson is that you can't lose a war if you have command of the air, and you can't win a war if you haven't.” - General Jimmy Doolittle

Welcome mate.

__________________
For want of a nail the shoe was lost, for the want of a shoe the horse was lost, for the want of a horse the rider was lost, for the want of a rider the battle was lost, For want of a battle the kingdom was lost, and all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Robert,

Howdy and welcome to the forum. Glad to have you with us. I am moving this thread over to the 'Information Requests' section for better exposure. Happy posting.

__________________

Hi All, One must keep an open mind on this. My lawyer friend (who passed away) was checking into salvage rights as well as doing a documentry on this find. Remember, most of the B.C. coastline is unpopulated and was even more so during WW2. The subs were penned in a cavaren of sorts, not visible from most locations. The aircraft were on land covered with netting. Having guided in that area during the 70s' I can pretty well assure you that one could hide an aircraft carrier along a lot of the coastline. Brought back from the origional find were small arms weapons as well as a log book. Where these are now is unknown to me at this time. I can only assume that they were passed on to his family, that had no interest in this, and possibly destroyed or thown out by now. I do have a rough location where the subs are located, but the exact spot was kept to himself for obvious reasons. Why the subs were there is beyond me. I can only assume that the location would have been ideal for carrying out raids and establishing a foothold in North Americia. I 26 did attack Vancouver Island as well as Alaska during that time, a fact that the governments do not like to admit. They are also tight lipped on my quiries, which is understandable.

Hi All, One must keep an open mind on this. My lawyer friend (who passed away) was checking into salvage rights as well as doing a documentry on this find. Remember, most of the B.C. coastline is unpopulated and was even more so during WW2. The subs were penned in a cavaren of sorts, not visible from most locations. The aircraft were on land covered with netting. Having guided in that area during the 70s' I can pretty well assure you that one could hide an aircraft carrier along a lot of the coastline. Brought back from the origional find were small arms weapons as well as a log book. Where these are now is unknown to me at this time. I can only assume that they were passed on to his family, that had no interest in this, and possibly destroyed or thown out by now. I do have a rough location where the subs are located, but the exact spot was kept to himself for obvious reasons. Why the subs were there is beyond me. I can only assume that the location would have been ideal for carrying out raids and establishing a foothold in North Americia. I 26 did attack Vancouver Island as well as Alaska during that time, a fact that the governments do not like to admit. They are also tight lipped on my quiries, which is understandable.

The idea is hardly an absurd one, for the reasons you cite. Someone has already mentioned the Japanese venture at French Frigate Shoals. However, I will be slow to accept the details in the absence of any evidence. I 26's attack on the Estevan Point lighthouse is well known and was acknowledged by the Canadian government from the start. Original news reports mentioned two subs, but it was only I 26 firing about seventeen shells, at least two of which were duds. One was found two weeks after the attack and can be seen today in a museum in Ottawa. The other was discovered in 1973 and was blown up as a hazard. Some of the fragments are kept at the Maritime Museum in Victoria. None of the shells hit the lighthouse, and the only damage was some gouging from shell splinters and some glass broken by blast. A patrol plane assigned to hunt the sub crashed on take-off with no fatalities among the crew. All these facts are readily available, and I'm not aware that Canada has ever been tight-lipped on the matter.

A base suggests a support structure and supplies. Say 10 men for every one that sailed on the subs. Getting supplies to the cavern would be dicey. Keeping it secret would be "interesting". Defending it would be impossible.

__________________
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
Pearl Harbor Attack Message Board
Veteran: USN, 1969-1989

I concur that defending it would be impossible, however, did they think it would require defence. One has to remember that that Germans and Japanese thought they were going to win the war, and that they had superior naval power. And if they were brazen and good enough to send I 26 as well as I 17 (I believe) as far north as Alaska, supplying would not be absurd. Aside from the fact it is near impossible to find an aircraft carrier let alone a sub along that stretch of coast. I think if you check the records the Canadian government origionally called the sighting of I 26 at Estevan Point a hoax. Hopefully there will be more evidence surface of this secrect base.

tech6949, there are several problems with a base there. First you have feed all those men, that requires supplies. Then, for it to be any good, you have to be able to refuel, rearm and resupply the war ships. Again, that that's a lot of shipping going to and fro. A long way into enemy waters. If a ship were hidden along the coast it might be hard to spot, certainly nobody spotted the Tirpitz in Norway.

Another thing to consider is that the locals know those waters, and they know which ships are supposed to be in those waters. And with a state of war in effect they'd be very likely to spot either the subs or the supply ships if not the base itself. And many of them had radios. Coastal Patrol would have been there in jig time if a "Rising Sun" had been reported. Patrolling is dull work.

__________________
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
Pearl Harbor Attack Message Board
Veteran: USN, 1969-1989

I agree there would be several problems there. If not for the fact my deceased lawyer friend was about to invest a small fortune for this expedition I would have been somewhat sceptical myself. But, as he explained to me at that time, the Germans and Japanese were under the impression that they were to win the war, so perhaps they considered it not to be enemy waters for long. I know there are still a lot of classified documents pertaining to WW 2. Maybe this is one of them...only time and research will tell for sure. The only thing I am sure of is the fact there is a couple subs and aircraft up there waiting to be found again. As for the locals, I admit there were a few about at that time, but checking the population density for the 40s'; they were few and far apart...still is even now in that area. The only other explaination I can come up with is this may have been a last ditch effort for raiding the caoastline and abandoned at the end of the war, the crew injectecting themselves into the general population or returning to Japan on another vessel. Either which way, it's still up there and would be interesting to find out exactly why they are.

The Japanese had no intention of seizing land on the North American continent. That would not have been a necessary condition for them to have used a secluded spot on the coast as a secure place from which to launch a submarine's aircraft. As mentioned before, the Japanese sent a sub to French Frigate Shoals in Hawaii to refuel a pair of flying boats en route to bombing Oahu. Also, the Americans had plans to find a similarly secluded spot in the Philippines after their conquest by the Japanese in order to establish reconnaissance and so forth.

Hi, Here is a tidbit for you. Kind of makes the BC coast base seem more plausable. It appears they may have wanted to sieze a bit of North America afterall. Came off the History Channel.Alaska's Bloodiest Battle - The History Channel history.com :: 2006-03-04
In 1942 and 1943, the Aleutian Islands in Alaska played host to the only armed conflict fought on American soil since the War of 1812. In an effort to draw resources away from the Battle of Midway, Japanese forces bombed Alaska's Dutch Harbor, setting up a year-long occupation of the islands of Kiska and Attu with 3,000 soldiers. In May of 1943, a force of 11,000 Americans landed on Attu. They were met with the bone-chilling cold of the Alaskan winter and found themselves battling the unforgiving tundra as much as the Japanese themselves. The 3-week battle was one of the bloodiest in all of WWII. [WWII Alaska: Aleutian Islands campaign: Attu, Kiska islands]

The islands are not part of the continent. They were not seized to draw resources away from the Battle of Midway. The rationale for the Aleutian operation is spelled out in the fantastic book Shattered Sword. I don't understand the comment about "the only armed conflict fought on American soil since the War of 1812."

I recon if you have questions about the History Channels quotation try this link:http://hitlernews.cloudworth.com/ww2-in-american-soil.php. The Aleutians are not attached to the continent per say, but are still part of Alaska, the same as Vancouver Island is still part of British Columbia. I tend to question some authors on thier views as well as some documentries.

"Combined Attu Reports on Japanese Warfare"

__________________


For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

One has to wonder as to how seriously the allied forces origionally saw a threat to the pacific northwest coast. And one has to wonder how the Japanese managed to get a naval force such as they did up to the attack on Dutch Harbor and then to the Aleutian Islands basically unmolested. Listed is a quick breakdown of some of the defences built by the Americians.

1940 - U. S. Navy base built at Dutch Harbor on Unalaska island.

Jan. 15, 1942 - The Alaskan Air Force was established at Elmendorf Field, Anchorage, and renamed the Eleventh Air Force on Feb. 5.

Feb. 17, 1942 - Fort Randall was established by the Army at Cold Bay on the tip of the Alaskan Peninsula

March 31, 1942 - Cape Field runway completed at Fort Glenn, a secret airbase on Umnak Island disguised as a cannery complex. The Navy built a base on Adak.

May 25, 1942 - U. Task Force 8 of Admiral Robert A. Theobald arived at Kodiak Island with 5 cruisers, 14 destroyers, and 6 submarines.

June 3, 1942 - Yamamoto sent the Northern Area Fleet of Admiral Boshiro Hosogaya, composed of 2 small aircraft carriers, 5 cruisers, 12 destroyers, 6 submarines, and 4 troop transports, to attack Dutch Harbor.

June 4, 1942 - The eight P-40s of the Aleutian Tigers counterattacked from Cape Field and destroyed four Val dive bombers and one Zero.

June 5, 1942 - TF8 sailed into the Bering Sea but failed to engage Hosogaya's fleet that moved from Dutch Harbor to the western Aleutians.

June 6, 1942 - Japan occupied Kiska, and on June 7 occupied Adak.

July 5, 1942 - U. S. learned that Hosogaya's fleet had departed from the Aleutians.

August 30, 1942 - U. S. occupied Adak and built airfield.

September 14, 1942 - Adak-based U.S. B-24 planes bombed Kiska.

January 11, 1943 - U. S. occupied Amchitka, only 50 miles from Kiska. Adm. Thomas C. Kinkaid replaced Admiral Theobald as commander of Northern Pacific Force, and began a naval blockade around the Aleutians.

February 21, 1943 - Amchitka-based U.S. aircraft bombed Kiska.

March 26 - In the Battle of the Komandorski Islands, the U.S. repelled an attempt by Hosogaya to reinforce Kiska and Attu with 3 transport ships, 4 cruisers, and 4 destroyers.

May 11, 1943 - U. S. forces landed on Attu.

May 29, 1943 - Last Japan attack defeated on Attu, but Americans suffered heavy casualties.

May 30, 1943 - U. S. occupation of Attu completed.

July 28, 1943 - Japan evacuated Kiska.

August 15, 1943 - Allied forces occupied Kiska.

1944 - U.S. planes made raids against the Kurile islands, causing Japan to maintain a large northern force to defend against possible attacks from the Aleutians.

If you look at a map of the area and then look at what else was happening during that time frame you really don't have to wonder to much.

I can quite agree with you on that. Hence my earlier saying that you could hide an aircraft carrier along the B.C. coast; therefore I had no trouble with the two Japanese subs and land based aircraft when first told to me. I do wonder on the route they took to Dutch Harbor though. I can not seem to find anything on thier actual route...ie up thre B.C. coast or along the eastern bloc. Any ideas where to look? Thanks

Shattered Sword may have had charts showing it. Some of the other Midway related sites on the web do. It's been a while so I'm not sure which ones. You can also ask over on the ijn board at:
Japanese Ships & Navy Message Board

The route for the Japanese attack on Dutch Harbor and the Aleutians

The map states Japanese Limit of Advance, not route taken to Attu.


lwd, page 78

__________________
Please give the Combined Fleet the chance to bloom as flowers of death. This is the navy’s earnest request. RADM Tasuku Nakazawa prior to the Battle of Leyte Gulf
It is the function of the Navy to carry the war to the enemy so that it will not be fought on U.S. soil. Admiral Chester W. Nimitz

You seem to think the Japanese abandoned one or two of their subs and some aircraft along the BC coast. Is that an accurate statement?

I can imagine some protected coastal rendezvous where submarines may have waited to refuel reconnaissance aircraft, or make minor repairs to their own vessels, but a sub "base" is really beyond credibility. The BC coast may be sparsely populated but it is well known to fishermen and yachtsmen and a cavern large enough to shelter a submarine or even small float planes would be known by now. I think it's safe to say no such cavern or base exists. There might still be some evidence of small landings along the coast, but I'd bet nothing more than some small arms, ammo, or other minor equipment.

Unless, I had actual physical proof in hand, I'd be very wary of claims of Japanese "bases" on Canada's West Coast.