Battlefields

urqh · #1 (**permalink**) July 30th, 2003, 10:41 AM

May have been done before and probably fits into Living history better than freezone..

Youve got the money....What battlefield out of all your favourites are you going to spend it on visiting?

Mine 2nd world war, has to be Arnhem, never been.

None 2nd world war, Waterloo.

Although Ive been in the area of both, never visited them.

Martin Bull · #2 (**permalink**) July 30th, 2003, 01:02 PM

Go to Arnhem, go directly to Arnhem, do not pass 'Go', do not collect..... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Seriously, urqh - do go ! It makes a great long-weekend visit and can be done without too much outlay ( you can even get there by train...)

Stefan · #3 (**permalink**) July 31st, 2003, 03:20 PM

Do Waterloo as well, I stayed in Belgium with some relatives of a friend and basically had to force them (nearly at gun point) to take me to Waterloo. Well, I wanted to go, my friend was interested and they could not understand why I HAD to go to see the field despite their assurance that there was nothing there worth seeing. I do not know really why but standing on top of the mound, at the base of the lion, looking out at the field before me. La Haie Saint, the Hougoumont, the corn field and not that far away Quatre Bras (not that you can see it). The thing is, the whole area is basically flat, the 'hill' that the guards hid behind is maybe a meter tall. All the same, well worth a visit, even if you have to badger a young belgian couple into taking you (maybe they weren't too happy with being reminded how fast the Belgian soldiers ran away

)

sommecourt · #4 (**permalink**) July 31st, 2003, 04:02 PM

You should really visit some battlefields - but WARNING, as Martin will testify, it is a highly addictive thing, and you will find yourself wanting to go again, and again and again.

Two of my favourite places in 22+ years of visiting battlefields are Gallipoli (WW1) and Monte Cassino... Cassino is a great battlefield to walk, and walking a battlefield is the best way to do it.

Stefan · #5 (**permalink**) July 31st, 2003, 04:12 PM

I am with Sommecourt on the addiction problem, though I find a great cure for the addiction is being broke. I also agree that walking a battlefield is better than driving or doing a coach tour, apart from anything it just seems to me to be a matter of respect, to walk the places that the men who fought there had to walk and so on.

I really must see Arnhem one of these days...

Martin Bull · #6 (**permalink**) July 31st, 2003, 05:34 PM

Paul's absolutely right..(

) although oddly enough I've never managed to get to either Gallipoli or Cassino. Even now, I'm wondering if I can 'squeeze in' a little trip to the Ardennes before autumn's finished....

Arnhem's great for walking, though. If you've got the right books, you can literally follow every movement of some units.

Erich · #7 (**permalink**) July 31st, 2003, 06:32 PM

first off, I am extrememly jealous as the battlefields in Deutschland were not on my to-do list in 1980, being involved with a church toru group.....

second, my wife and I are hopeful for a return within 5 years to do just this besides visit relatives.

third, Martin will you be bringing a shovel, as I have heard through French/English contacts that the area still provides so much of the unknowns ready to be discovered. What references do you have on the Ardenne ? The monster "After the Battle" classic ?

~E

sommecourt · #8 (**permalink**) July 31st, 2003, 07:01 PM

Vorwald's 'Battle of the Bulge - Through The Lens' is also a good companion to the main ATB publication. There are also some good local guidebooks, which you can buy at the museum or the tourist office in Bastogne.

The 'Battleground Europe' series published a couple of volumes on this, but I was disappointed with them - too much history, not enough battlefield info, which is a typical problem with all their WW2 titles - very different to the WW1 ones.

Martin Bull · #9 (**permalink**) July 31st, 2003, 07:13 PM

Paul is absolutely right - although, despite later criticisms over detail, I prefer Pallud's monster of a book which has accompanied me to the area several times.

Agreed about the 'Battleground Europe' titles - they're OK, but somehow not satisfying. Ditto William CC Cavanagh's 'A Tour Of The Bulge Battlefield' which, although in the same series, is not a patch on John Waddy's Arnhem guide.

I have a good one published locally for the 50th Anniversary which gives good driving tours - but it's in French and now totally unavailable.

I also quite like Danny Parker's big Bulge book which has some great photos but terribly reproduced.

No, take 'Pallud' along with Vorwald as well and you'll find much to see....

Erich · #10 (**permalink**) July 31st, 2003, 07:23 PM

ok it's set then ! you two English gents are going to get your heads together and meet in the Ardenne on October 29th and explore the countryside for the next three months documenting the entire countryside and of course will have a "bus" load of information, photos/digitals, and a seperate car load of relics dug from the earth.......upon your return

alles Klar ?

seriously a nice 450 page guide to the events/battlefields would be a terrific find and someone most interested in this should apply their hands to this

Stefan · #11 (**permalink**) July 31st, 2003, 07:39 PM

It is a shame I am skint or I would be nterested in coming as well.

sommecourt · #12 (**permalink**) August 1st, 2003, 04:57 PM

Alles is indeed Klar, Erich - if only I had the time this autumn! I have long since thought that there could be a real good guide book on the Bulge... it's one of the best places to visit, in terms of so little changing. And you can see as you drive around how the terrain played a vital part in the outcome of the battle, even with modern roads and bridges!