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Old July 19th, 2007, 01:50 AM
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Default What is an Atwood fake ?

Hi all,

Ive been reading past posts in several militaria forum and noticed that members mentioning an Atwood fake/reproduction of certain edged weapons.
3 questions to ask,;-

1) Does the name Atwood refer to Major James P. Atwood, the author of the book "The Daggers and Edged Weapons of Hitler's Germany"?? From what i read it is him.

2) How reliable is his reference book ??

3) Whats the story behind these Atwood fakes ??

Really appreciate for any help given. Thank You.

Cheers,
Ibrahim,
Singapore.
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Old July 19th, 2007, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: What is an Atwood fake ?

Ok guys, here are some answers that i got. Any of you guys wish to add on, please do ok.

Quote from ORPO

"Ibrahim,

I knew Jim Atwood back in the day (1960s). I used to still run into him at the MAX before he died. In answer to your questions:

1. Yes, Atwood fakes refer to Major James P. Atwood.

2. His reference book is indispensable for collectors to know what he had access to and to be able to understand the terms, "Atwood fake" and "parts dagger."

3. The back story is that Atwood was a pioneer of German dagger collecting when he was stationed in Germany and had access to the original manufacturers of these daggers. He researched and wrote this book and broke new ground. He also bought up unused parts by the pound and had new parts made if he could not find a suitable part. He also sold daggers and some were made up of original parts, some original and reproduction parts, and some had no original parts (i.e. complete fakes). He also pictured some of these "parts daggers" in his book to give them the air of authenticity. He also fabricated documentation in some instances.

Now, Jim Atwood was investigated by the Army and sent home in disgrace. He was reviled by collectors who bought these daggers believing them to be genuine. He finally sold his cache of parts to another author/dealer in the US who still sells them as parts today (not assembled daggers). Atwood's reputation was somewhat rehabilitated in his later years by some in the hobby and he attended the MAX shows until his death.

I hope this helps you understand the collector terms and the man and the hobby a bit.

P.S.
If you are going to collect German daggers, you need a copy of Atwood's book but take it with a very large grain of salt.""
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Old July 19th, 2007, 01:56 AM
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Default Re: What is an Atwood fake ?

Quote from Mr Keys

""Hi All,

Here is what I can lend to this thread. I met Jim Attwood back in the late 1970's when I was in Savanna GA. for an old freinds wedding. I had many questions for Mr. Attwood as I had his book, as well had seen many daggers that were sold as made up daggers from Mr. Attwood.
My first question to him was how much of his book was true, as in did he find crates of dagger parts, as well partly finished daggers etc. Plus I was very interested in knowing his involvement with damast smith's post war such as Paul Dinger, Carl Wester, and Paul Muller. The rumors at that time were many, and at that point in time most everyone was in fear of fakes.

He stated he did in fact acquire NOS from most factorys that had such, as well as templates / dyes / casting molds. Box's of records doc, etc. He explained he had in fact made up a mass of daggers and swords.
I saw Mr. Attwood again many years later at a max show where he had a table set up with a large batch of portepee's, hanger materials, as well fittings etc. At that time he was taliking about a lot of items found in the eastern block countrys.
He felt that in Russia and other Eastern block countrys there were many lost TR era items to be found.

Yes he freely admited that the Muller Letter opners were made up for him by Mr. Muller as well Mr. Muller had been making up Letter opners during the ""dry years,"" as in form the post war time, 1946- up until the lifting of the blade lenght ban in the late 1950's - that ban was imposed by the Allies; of that ban the only part that I think that is still in effect is the outward display of a SWAS..
After Mr. Mullers death, his student - Robert Kurtan made up these Himmler LO's .
As well as some funky SS, SA Honor dagger blades, these are easy to spot, the first thing is the blades pattern as in
"not being maidenhair pattern" as well the wide thick tangs..
The pattern wield blades made Post War by all the above makers, were of a far less quality than what was made during the TR era. as well some of the wild presentations from Hitler Rommel, Himmler, etc mostly to well know war hero's are kind of easy to spot.
By the way these are also found on etched blades too...""
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Old July 19th, 2007, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: What is an Atwood fake ?

Quote from kingtiger

""SS daggers with the RZM mark M7/37
RZM 1051/39 SS

are common Atwood fakes, confirmed by the high center ridge on the blade, no tang marks and wallowed out grip tang holes."
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