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| Military History The place for non-WWII military history discussion. |
September 22nd, 2005, 09:21 AM
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Ice,
The only ex-defender I've ever met was a Polish gentleman I know who was one of the troops stationed around Findo Gask airfield in Perthshire.
Pillboxes etc would have been manned either by regular troops, or Home Guard. There's probably more chance of tracing an ex-HG than a regular, because at least some of the HG would have remained in the area for the duration. As far as the coastal artillery batteries in Fife go, there were several coast artillery units of the Territorial Army who manned them until late in the war, when they would have been replaced by HG.
I would like to have a go at contacting ex-wartime members of these units, but it's trying to find the time unfortunately. 
I have an acquaintance who interviewed hundreds of ex-RAF personnel who manned the various wartime radar stations in Scotland/NE England. He spent years doing it though. |
September 22nd, 2005, 09:57 AM
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Ice,
My Grandfather and Uncle served in the Home Guard, an armed militia formed of men who were either too young or too old to serve in the regular army. More Home Guard Info.
Their view was it was far safer to be outside rather than inside a pillbox as most had only one exit and were considered death traps.
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“This is a tale you will tell your grandchildren, and mightily bored they’ll be.” Lt. Gen. Brian Horrocks commander of British XXX Corps September 16, 1944 prior to Operation Market.
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September 27th, 2005, 09:27 PM
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This probably rates as my find of the year. While I was over at Burntisland the other week, I saw these on the beach.
Turns out they're 1940 anti-landing obstacles! Each stake is around three foot high, and surrounded by four staked-down spars, each of which is three foot long. The central stakes were originally much higher, but at some point they have been cut down to minimise the navigation hazard to fishing vessels/pleasure craft etc.
They stretch for a good few hundred yards, and seem to make a \ | / pattern, but whether this is intentional or just the effect of 65 years of tidal action, I don't know.
This is the view north-east to Kinghorn:
This is the view south across the Firth of Forth to Edinburgh...
And this is the view south-west back towards Burntisland....
The main railway line runs along the shore here on an elevated stone embankment, so perhaps these were all that was thought necessary to protect the beach. There is a pedestrian underpass straight off the beach onto the main road, but this would have been blocked.
At the Burntisland end of the beach is an 18th century Limekiln, immediately to the rear of that pillbox I pictured earlier. There's no surviving physical evidence to prove it, but all the structure would have needed to turn it into a strongpoint would have been the sandbagging of the various entrances.
[ 27. September 2005, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ] |
September 28th, 2005, 09:19 AM
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Very rare indeed!
The Defence of Britain Database only lists 2 sites in the whole of the UK as surviving.
This one isn't listed.
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“This is a tale you will tell your grandchildren, and mightily bored they’ll be.” Lt. Gen. Brian Horrocks commander of British XXX Corps September 16, 1944 prior to Operation Market.
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September 28th, 2005, 09:34 AM
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I'm starting to wonder if they've realised the war's over in Scotland..... [img]tongue.gif[/img] 
A rare sight indeed and yet again - thanks for posting the pix, Gordon !
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September 28th, 2005, 04:27 PM
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Martin,
It's to keep you lot on the right side of the border!  [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Ian,
Are those two beaches in Scotland? I think Tyninghame beach in East Lothian has the remains of scaffolding on the beach, and I'm sure there's something else up in Angus - the Lunan Bay area?  |
September 29th, 2005, 08:44 AM
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Both south of the border! Well one is just....
Bawdsey, Suffolk, England
Bawdsey Beach, East Lane, Bawdsey., Condition: Very Bad (Grid ref: TM 3585 4028 Grid ref: TM 3580 4039 Grid ref: TM 3586 4036 Grid ref: TM 3580 4010 )
Widdrington, Northumberland, England
Druridge Bay, Condition: Extant but condition unknown (Grid ref: NZ 280 965 )
Photos of Druridge Bay Remains
I was at Druridge Bay earlier this year but didn't see any evidence, and certainly nothing as clear cut as Burntisland. Should be grade 1 listing!
[ 29. September 2005, 05:14 AM: Message edited by: pillboxesuk ]
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“This is a tale you will tell your grandchildren, and mightily bored they’ll be.” Lt. Gen. Brian Horrocks commander of British XXX Corps September 16, 1944 prior to Operation Market.
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September 29th, 2005, 02:32 PM
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Talking of rare finds...check out this purpose built gun emplacement with remnants of its original camouflage paint and pitched roof to disguise it from the air.
Ellastone Camouflaged Gun Emplacement
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“This is a tale you will tell your grandchildren, and mightily bored they’ll be.” Lt. Gen. Brian Horrocks commander of British XXX Corps September 16, 1944 prior to Operation Market.
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September 29th, 2005, 02:48 PM
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Nice one, Ian. Superb pics! 
Haven't seen an emplacement like that myself yet. Are the defences on Bawdsey beach anywhere near the old Chain Home station? It is Bawdsey I'm thinking of?!
There are also anti-tank blocks on the beach at Seahouses in Northumberland, and a pillbox on the dunes next to a deserted Coastguard lookout on the road to Bamburgh.
If you go south of Seahouses, there's a roadside pillbox on the back road to Alnwick, not far from the wartime airfield.
I just sent a report form and the pics of Burntisland beach to the RCAHMS in Edinburgh, so they should be online in the NMR in the next few weeks. |
September 29th, 2005, 04:35 PM
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I remember ( on holiday in Seahouses in the early -70s ) walking in the dunes between there and Bamburgh ; coming across a large hollow filled to the brim with masses of rusting coiled barbed-wire and pickets. There must have been literally tons of it which must have just been rolled up off the beach and dumped there post-war.
And no - I didn't bring it home.....
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September 29th, 2005, 08:58 PM
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Shame on you, Martin!
I was in Seahouses a couple of years back, but didn't get much time to thoroughly scour the shore...........
Just found this story btw Work unearths WW2 pillbox
They lifted it to a new location?! 
[ 29. September 2005, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ] |
September 30th, 2005, 09:30 AM
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I have a mate show lives in the area, I've asked him for some pics. Watch this space!
I've always thought one of these should be preserved in a museum, although ideally in its original location....
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“This is a tale you will tell your grandchildren, and mightily bored they’ll be.” Lt. Gen. Brian Horrocks commander of British XXX Corps September 16, 1944 prior to Operation Market.
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October 2nd, 2005, 08:40 PM
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This is the old wartime Chain Home radar station at Kingsmuir, near Anstruther in Fife.
This is the standby generator building...
And this is one of the actual radar buildings-not sure if it's the transmitter or receiver building...
This little building stands at the end of the field
The technical site used to survive about half a mile down the road, but is now cleared away.
When Kingsmuir closed post-war, it was replaced by a Rotor radar building at nearby Troywood...
...Which is now open to the public as Scotland's Secret Bunker
These two Nissen huts are still used by one of the local farmers at East Pitcorthie....
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October 2nd, 2005, 08:47 PM
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...While over near Glenrothes, still in Fife, this pillbox guards the entrance to the village of Thornton, and also marks the start of the Fife Command Line...
While these concrete anti-tank pimples ('Dragon's Teeth') lie behind a wall directly across the road...
Originally they would have been spread across the road itself.
[ 02. October 2005, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ] |
October 3rd, 2005, 11:14 AM
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Fortified pubs!
At two crossings of the Leeds Liverpool Canal canalside pubs either had loopholes added to existing buildings or extensions added intended to blend in with the surroundings. This example is the Slipway Inn near Burscough.
The sign is of a more recent vintage, but the welcome extended to uninvited German tourists would have undoubtably been very warm indeed 60 years ago!
More pics here
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“This is a tale you will tell your grandchildren, and mightily bored they’ll be.” Lt. Gen. Brian Horrocks commander of British XXX Corps September 16, 1944 prior to Operation Market.
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October 3rd, 2005, 11:32 AM
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I thought these were a recent initiative connected with binge-drinking and Anti-Social Behaviour.....
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October 3rd, 2005, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Martin Bull:
I thought these were a recent initiative connected with binge-drinking and Anti-Social Behaviour.....
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ROFPMSL I wish! The liquer industry in the USA would go broke quick if we instituted that initiative.
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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL
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October 5th, 2005, 08:16 AM
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Sure my old band played in one of those pubs...... |
October 7th, 2005, 03:01 PM
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A couple for Martin.....
I snapped this Rolls-Royce Griffon engine outside the engineering labs in the James Watt building, Glasgow University. There's no plaque details beyond the name, so I have no idea what mark/variant it is.
Think I'm right in saying that the engine was modified and fitted to Spitfires from MKIV onwards, and also fitted to the short-lived Spiteful fighter, which was intended to replace the Spit until the advent of jets.
The James Watt building itself was opened by Field Marshall Montgomery on 4th November 1959.
[ 15. December 2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: The_Historian ] |
October 11th, 2005, 03:59 PM
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I'll spare you the rant, chaps. Suffice to say that cretins like this guy don't do my blood pressure any good........  [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]
Controversy over POW Camp plans.
All the more excuse for me to get up there soon and photograph the bloody place. | |
