Military Archaeology - Page 11

The_Historian · #**251** (**permalink**) November 10th, 2005, 01:48 PM

Won't be the first time this has happened to me either!

Island's visitors face savage aerial threat

pillboxesuk · #**252** (**permalink**) November 10th, 2005, 03:17 PM

Still....better than stukas on yet head...!

bigiceman · #**253** (**permalink**) November 10th, 2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pillboxesuk:
Still....better than stukas on yet head...!

True, but you could shoot a Stuka without an environmentalist having a cow.

The_Historian · #**254** (**permalink**) November 16th, 2005, 04:06 PM

Got quite excited about this (and no comments on the lack of a social life, please!)
[img]tongue.gif[/img] WW1 relic unearthed on common

bigiceman · #**255** (**permalink**) November 16th, 2005, 04:22 PM

Gordon, why would you think that any of us on this forum would make any comments about being cloistered or wondering how long it has been since daylight touched your skin? That isn't like this group is it?

The_Historian · #**256** (**permalink**) November 16th, 2005, 04:44 PM

Listen. Just 'cos I'm paranoid doesn't mean you lot ain't out to get me!

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

bigiceman · #**257** (**permalink**) November 16th, 2005, 05:43 PM

By the way Gordon, when you dig up a trench, what have you got?

The_Historian · #**258** (**permalink**) November 16th, 2005, 09:32 PM

Errmm.....six months in traction?!

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

The_Historian · #**259** (**permalink**) November 20th, 2005, 09:02 PM

This guide to battlefield archaeology has just been published:
Battlefield Archaeology Guide

bigiceman · #**260** (**permalink**) November 25th, 2005, 02:55 PM

That looks like a serious resource Gordon. I will have a look at it though as I am going to look at some of the military archeological sights here in Hawaii while I am on vacation.

The_Historian · #**261** (**permalink**) November 25th, 2005, 04:48 PM

A suntan and archaeological sightseeing?! I'm insanely jealous!
It certainly does look like a cracking source on the subject Ice. We seem to be in the usual position; no new guides for years, then everyone's producing them. Suppose I shouldn't complain though.

The_Historian · #**262** (**permalink**) December 15th, 2005, 11:37 AM

This was pointed out to me by Pillboxesuk, obviously a bit more observant than I've been lately!

Lunan Bay Scaffolding Defences

This is in Angus, which is another treasure trove of wartime remains.

Cheers Ian!

[img]graemlins/salute.gif[/img]

[ 15. December 2005, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]

The_Historian · #**263** (**permalink**) December 28th, 2005, 03:38 PM

Something different this time. This is the old Starfish bombing decoy just outside Kilsyth, Central Scotland....

These decoys were designed to simulate blackout breaches to encourage German bombers to unload on open countryside, rather than built-up areas. This one protected the former burghs of Kilsyth (to the south) and Denny (to the east), both of which had many iron foundries in the '40s.
A close-up of the entrance....

...And a view from the inside outwards...

This entrance passage divided the concrete bunker in three. On the left was the crew room....

As well as this escape hatch, there is also evidence of furniture having been wall-mounted.

The outside of the hatch. The control bunker was earth-covered both for protection and camouflage.

The room on the other side contained generators, mounted on these plinths...

There are parallel lines of stones in the field opposite, about 300m away, which may represent the positions of the actual decoy apparatus itself, but the snow was lying too thickly today to let me look for them.
Most Starfish sites used conglomerations of scaffolding poles to mount their apparatus, which could be anything from electric bulbs shining through plywood to represent a skylight window in a house, to burning fuel to represent foundry furnaces.

The_Historian · #**264** (**permalink**) December 31st, 2005, 04:37 PM

Recently visited the former Royal Navy Armaments Depot at Bandeath, near Stirling. Built in 1916 (illegally technically, since it used labour from the onsite POW camp!), it was one of a series of depots serving HMS Cochrane (Rosyth Naval Base) until closure around 1980. The depot has been an industrial estate since 1983, but still has around 95% of its wartime buildings.
This is a firewatch post, there are several of these around the lower part of the site.

This is one of the many ammo stores now used by small businesses...

The walls are thicker than the roof, to deflect any blast upwards. The store is raised because the depot was built on a loop of the River Forth, and despite extensive berms around the perimeter, it is still liable to flooding. I know of at least one air raid shelter which has literally sunk into the ground since 1992!
This is the remnants of a square of chemical 'paint', sensitive to poison gas and intended to give early warning of an attack by changing colour.

This was a standard feature on wartime military buildings, but Bandeath is the only place I know of it surviving.
The next pics show a dilapidated wooden hut, securely penned in by ten foot high reinforced concrete walls....

The hut is what was called the 'frangible' type, ie it was just sturdy enough to keep out the weather, but in the event of an explosion it would disintegrate easily to minimise blast damage to the surrounding area. I have copies of contemporary Navy photos of the depot from around 1959/60, which show the interior of a wooden hut used to store sea-mines. Wonder if this was one of them?
According to the NMR there is a pillbox on the western perimeter of the depot, but I couldn't find it on this visit.

[ 31. December 2005, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]

Martin Bull · #**265** (**permalink**) December 31st, 2005, 04:58 PM

Very interesting photos, Gordon.

Making me feel quite chilly - time for a wee dram, I think !

The_Historian · #**266** (**permalink**) December 31st, 2005, 05:10 PM

Wee?! Typical southerner............ [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[img]graemlins/salute.gif[/img]

pillboxesuk · #**267** (**permalink**) January 2nd, 2006, 01:29 PM

Here's some fun if your at a loose end...
[img]smile.gif[/img]
Make Your Own Pillbox

On a slightly more serious note, I've added some updates to my UK Invasion Defence site.
Latest Update

Enjoy!

P.S You have prob already seen the beach scaffolding pics

The_Historian · #**268** (**permalink**) January 2nd, 2006, 02:31 PM

Cheers for that, Ian. Good to see the site going from strength to strength.

There are a couple of loopholed walls in the Edinburgh area, but I don't have photos just yet. I'm also led to believe that there are the remains of a flamme fougasse installation somewhere in the Central Belt-can't confirm it yet, but I would love to find that!
Love the pillbox model!

pillboxesuk · #**269** (**permalink**) January 2nd, 2006, 03:03 PM

Flame Fougasse!, now that'd be a find.

For those who don't know these comprised of forty-gallon drums containing a mixture of tar, lime and petrol. They were buried on the roadside and a string was pulled which would fire a small explosive charge to ignite the contents and spray them over the road creating a huge impenetrable and long-lasting wall of fire.

Btw Check out this paper model of a type 23 pillbox.Type 23 pillbox paper model (pdf file)

The_Historian · #**270** (**permalink**) January 3rd, 2006, 01:11 AM

This isn't WW2, but it's still a worthwhile cause.
Shorncliffe in the south of England has a remarkably well preserved Napoloeonic Wars Redoubt, and also some fantastically well preserved practice trenches from WW1.
Both are under threat from developers. You can read more here