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| Military History The place for non-WWII military history discussion. |
September 9th, 2005, 11:07 PM
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And without needing a medium either, Martin!
I found some wartime Civil Defence stuff too the other day; need to get around to posting it at some point.
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September 10th, 2005, 08:11 AM
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Great pictures Gordon. Here in the United States there has been some preservation on goverment land. I think a lot of that will be lost now that so many military bases are being closed and sold to private enterprise. The new developers will surely demolish and uproot everything in their way.
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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL
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September 10th, 2005, 08:16 AM
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I visited with a distant cousin's family in Hawaii in 1983. He was in the Air Force stationed on Oahu. One of the interesting things they told me is how there is a row every time someone suggests refinishing the outsides of the Pearl Harbor era buildings. As of 1983 they still had the bullet impact scars in the Schofield Barracks and several other buildings from the Japanese straffing runs. Has there been any preservation efforts along those lines in Britain?
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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL
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September 10th, 2005, 04:32 PM
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Ice,
There have been a few initiatives, namely the Defence of Britain Project, and the Modern Military Matters booklet from English Heritage. I think EH is the only one actively doing any preservation, the rest tend to be private jobs. That battery at Charles Hill is a good example. A local heritage group cleared the rubble of the old roof which had collapsed into the gunpit, and then erected the crush barriers you can see in the pics. Because the site is now on the Fife Coastal Route, I think they were able to attract funding to help them.
I don't think there is any active preservation in Scotland, beyond local initiatives anyway.
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September 11th, 2005, 05:55 AM
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I guess what I was really asking is if there are any areas in Great Britain where the damage inflicted by some particular event has been the subject of preservation. I have never heard of that on the net or in publications.
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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL
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September 11th, 2005, 10:15 AM
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Not that I'm aware of, Ice. Can't think of any?
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September 12th, 2005, 08:09 AM
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All I can find at the moment!
"The site of RAF Kenley, in Surrey, survives as a uniquely complete landscape, now largely used for amenity purposes.The fighter pens and parts of the perimeter track are currently being assessed for scheduling and the officers’ mess and airmen’s institute – the former bearing the scars of the raids of August 1940, during the Battle of Britain – for listing at grade II."
From English Heritage
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“This is a tale you will tell your grandchildren, and mightily bored they’ll be.” Lt. Gen. Brian Horrocks commander of British XXX Corps September 16, 1944 prior to Operation Market.
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September 12th, 2005, 08:57 AM
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Cheers Ian!
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September 12th, 2005, 09:01 AM
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Thanks Pillboxes. The article mentions a hydraulic pillbox. What is that?
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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL
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September 12th, 2005, 10:18 AM
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Also known as Pickett-Hamilton forts, Ice. They were small pillboxes mounted on a hydraulic arm, and situated (sometimes) on or near runways. When not in use, the roof sat flush with the ground surface.
When attacked, some poor sods had to sprint across open ground carrying an MG and boxes of ammo, manually work the pump which raised the hydraulic pressure enough to raise the pillbox above ground, then get into it and fight off the attackers.
And all without getting killed themselves! 
[ 12. September 2005, 05:33 AM: Message edited by: The_Historian ] |
September 12th, 2005, 11:12 AM
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Here's a pic to give u an idea what they looked like.
Pickett Hamilton Fort
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“This is a tale you will tell your grandchildren, and mightily bored they’ll be.” Lt. Gen. Brian Horrocks commander of British XXX Corps September 16, 1944 prior to Operation Market.
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September 12th, 2005, 01:10 PM
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Ice,
Here's a couple of books which might interest you:
American Seacoast Defences; A Reference Guide (2nd Ed.) by Mark Berlhow. 632pp Softback, CDSG Press.
The Military History of Boston's Harbour Islands by Gerald Butler. Arcadia Publishing 2000
I also found this new site on the Stalin Line in Belarus.
And this forum dedicated to fortifications- web page |
September 12th, 2005, 02:24 PM
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Thanks Gordon, I will have to mark these so I can come back and read them when I am done with the other books I bought from discussions in the What are you reading forum.
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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL
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September 14th, 2005, 01:50 PM
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I snapped this wartime National Fire Service sign in the east end of Glasgow on the way home today.
It reads: 'EWS' (Emergency Water Supply), '200' (yards), '800' (gallons). These supplies could be anything from a requisitioned swimming pool in someone's garden, the deliberately-flooded basement of a bombed-out house, or a purpose-made surface structure not unlike a modern economy swimming/paddling pool. |
September 14th, 2005, 05:50 PM
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Not many of those markings left. Gordon - it's amazing that they've lasted 65 years.
Was at Putney Bridge Station in London on business this afternoon - and there was the pillbox snapped by 'pillboxes' the other week.....
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September 14th, 2005, 06:06 PM
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Good to see these pillboxes in the flesh, isn't it?
There's an ARP Hospital sign in Burntisland, Fife as well Martin. They are the only two I know about up here, but I dare say there are probably many more waiting to be discovered.
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September 15th, 2005, 04:04 PM
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This is my kind of nutter!
Iron Curtain heritage Trail |
September 16th, 2005, 09:30 AM
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Where do you find 'em!
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“This is a tale you will tell your grandchildren, and mightily bored they’ll be.” Lt. Gen. Brian Horrocks commander of British XXX Corps September 16, 1944 prior to Operation Market.
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September 17th, 2005, 03:18 PM
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This might be of interest to anyone who wants to expand their background knowledge of this subject.
The English Heritage publication Conservation bulletin 44; the Archaeology of Conflict is now available online-
Conservation 44
Although this is the June 2003 issue, and primarily dealing with 20th century fortifications in Britain, it should be interesting enough for members from other parts of the world.
Be aware that the section on Military Aircraft Crash Sites doesn't seem to work though. |
September 19th, 2005, 01:30 PM
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September 21st, 2005, 06:55 PM
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I did some more rummaging over in Fife the other day and found this lot.
First is an ARP sign in Burntisland, pointing to a church across the road....
Next is an unusual pillbox on the shore at Burntisland, facing west towards the harbour and along the old frontage of the former shipbuilding yard.
Along the coast in Kinghorn was this old look-out post. It stands on the edge of a ravine, overlooking the harbour. There was a coastal battery on the hill behind the camera in the first photo, but it's long gone. This building may have been associated with it. It may also have been used by RN Coastwatchers because of its position. The town cemetery is on the other side of the wall.
On the way home I snapped this memorial to Donibristle airfield (HMS Merlin)in the car park of Dalgety Bay station.
And a close-up of the plaque...
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