Harold Wilson – who?


Yesterday BBC television screened the second part of the dramatised documentary, ”The Plot Against Harold Wilson”, Labour Prime Minister of Britain, who resigned from office suddenly and mysteriously 30 years ago to the day.

Myself, I found many things said in the programme that previously were only talked of in whispers or not at all. One thing in particular was the ‘Anti-Terrorist Exorcise’ at Heathrow which they announced was nothing of the sort but rehearsal in anticipation of a possible military coup, and a warning shot over Wilson’s bow. Perhaps time, deaths of some seniors involved and the recent ’30 Years Rule’ have cracked the embargo?

What has further surprised me, quite considerably, is the virtual lack of media response to this documentary considering its gravity? Perhaps you had to be at least ‘of the time’ to appreciate the significance, but even those born after should be aware – or made aware - of the immense importance to Britain of this Cold War episode.

The ‘official’ reason for Wilson’s premature resignation was advancing Alzheimer's, and the very few mentions in the press, such as in The Guardian, decry the allegations made against him in connection with the Soviets. Perhaps these were false, perhaps only some were, and perhaps not all have been revealed. Perhaps also in the fullness of time the Soviets, sorry, Russians, will disclose documents to us about ALL their activities here, which someone will be able to publish freely?

I am not seeking to turn this post into a party political debate as (A), I am not a party political person, and (B), beliefs of those of the time are far too ingrained to be changed by rhetoric. However, in view of the interest in this forum about Soviet influence, this episode illustrates the reality of the Cold War was about far more than just the nuclear threat, and to what lengths Nations were prepared to go to avoid becoming Communist.

No.9

A very interesting programme wow what a time that was, better than today's political farce.

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

I don’t know about farce Richard, it had its share with people claiming to be outraged by who people slept with. The sexual revolution of the 60’s was not automatically extended to the bureaucrats when the press decided otherwise. And, the matter did not end with Wilson. Perhaps something the bear in mind whenever they resurrect the ‘shame’ of smashing the Unions – i.e. the impoverished down-trodden workers against the evil rich employers. Which reminds me, comrade Scargill retired abroad in seclusion didn’t he? – Whoops, I’ve started my Wilkinson glowing now?

No.9

That period in our political history was more interesting to what is going on today No.9 in our politics. To put it bluntly politics today is so boring, its needs a good kick up the what ever. It was an interesting programme makes you wonder how far the upper classes would have gone, to protect their way of life; from what I find is a bit of a hair brain belief that England was going to become a communist country.

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

Perhaps it depends on what you’re interested in Richard? The Soviets lost the money race and one of the most courageous and humanitarian Statesmen, ever, did just enough to do what weapons could never have achieve.
[img]graemlins/salute.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/salute.gif[/img]

Events at the time of Wilson did not centre on him any more than the ‘upper classes’ or ‘working classes’. Military force was no real option of subjugation as that gun fired both ways. The button pushers would always have survived – they spent enough to ensure that – but who wants to be the boss of a pile of radio-active ash?

Communism doesn’t and can’t offer anything to the rich and powerful who, if so inclined, tend to be best tempted by more money and/or more power. The Proletariat – those without property and effective capital whose only resource is their labour – tend to be infinitely less demanding and far easier to influence with promises and illusions. Between the two lays the antiestablishmentarian and the ideologists, often intelligent and usually not without means or influence – dangerous!

While the public face of the military paraded about and rattled sabres, concerted infiltration took place with the intention of corrupting and manipulating the production, education and communications core of British society. Destabilisation and immobilisation leading to anarchy. Destruction of a Nation from within. Among the least successfully penetrated were the police. Not because they were ’fascists’ as Communist propaganda fervently proclaimed, but because at that time they were rich in quality ex-servicemen – thank God.

It was unthinkable Britain could become Communist, but not totally impossible.

”The pen may be mightier than the sword, but there’s still a lot to be said for a smack in the nuts!”
__________________________________________________ _______________________________Henry V

No.9

ps. That reminds me, whatever happened to the neutron shell?

It was a good program worth watching, which made a change from the usual junk.

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

Most people do not credit communism as being English but according to this it was born in Manchester England due to the poor working conditions during the industrial revolution. The article does not say but I would guess Friedrich Engels stayed wealthy during his life. Communism sounds good on paper but I think it goes against human nature.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUengels.htm

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

Not sure what to say to that one. Good read TA

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

One of the reasons Ted heath was so keen to join the Common Market was in an attempt to curb Britain's rapid lurch to the left in the '60s. Big mistake there, eh? [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]
Funny how many people forget that Marx was one big sponger

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Regards,

Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/thehistoryvault/
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/Historian/

Here here what a blunder that was.

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

Saw that 9, I am old enough to remember the aftermath of it all...Dont know truth about it, but heard the following. In a comms exercise before the Heathrow event.....Lots of folk still talking of it when I joined up. Apparantly Navy were to remain neautral in the event of that particular coup...Army I dont know, but the RAF were to face the coup leaders down if it occured...Or so I was informed

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

If you recall the deployment Urgh, checkpoints were operated by the police - with the Army with weapons along side. I think in the event a move on Whitehall and other strategic points, would have been is similar fashion, i.e. undertaken as a police operation with the Army along side if there was any shooting.

No idea what the RAF brass were up to, but I remember for a time but there seemed to be a lot of pilots on station and we were at full strength, continuously doing airfield dense exercises.

Nice to see your moniker again, to be sure, to be sure. [img]smile.gif[/img]

No.9

Thats it 9, I don't know the in's and out's just what folk were saying when I first joined up. Cant put any truth on the matter, but it seemed to be taken for granted by time served guys sitting on their sandbags at the time talking to me of days and tales gone by, that there was something in all this. The green jobs having to face off the blue jobs. I know where my money would be....But I to this day could still not imagine this happening. But then again, the cold war threw up lots of interesting stuff.

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

' Thass yer darlin' 'arold for yer, innit ? '

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Days when people could publicly 'ave a larf Martin.

Wouldn’t have mattered if you had joined up earlier urqh, no one was ever told anything anyway, and hearsay was usually guaranteed bo***cks. I could never have protected anything against an ICBM.

The rank and file wouldn’t have been a good choice for a coup as everyone voted as an individual and had there own domestic political views, or not as the case may be. I think it would only have involved a few top brass with mess accounts in Whitehall, speaking of which, how can the Navy be ‘neutral’ considering the Admiralty’s role in MI? Perhaps they were going to look out the windows making wagers while the Army and RAF had a pillow fight down Northumberland Avenue??? [img]tongue.gif[/img]


No.9

Simple really...As always the Navy's role at any time is to get the army out of the crap it got itself in and to spread tales about RAF Crabfats being unable to detect friend from foe...They cant forgive the RAF for forming an independant air role over the Fleet Air arm...
No seriously...Agreed, its all heresay...but I was amazed by the supposed role of Mountbatten and to watch some of our peers and elders and betters on TV talking of the time of the supposed coup planning...I'd still to this day charge all those Ruperts with Sedition...no matter what my own politics..a coup is a coup is a coup..never mind some of the names supposedly involved...no smoke without fire and all that..In a democracy...its just not on..To this day if it was found to be true..then the champagne Charlies interviewed and some of them respectable soldiers of their time are no better in my view than any South American bannana republic cowboys of the same time...Certainly it has made me think twice about the honour and reasoning of some of the supposed consprators who were ready to 'keep their own way of life at any cost' Cor blimey Guv...what the heck would happen if we ever banned Fox Huntin...Pull...says Duke of Edingbough...Damn these lefties...They'll end up shutting the UK car industry down...Im thinking of raising the matte at my club..As you can tell, Im just a bog Irish Ex pat who's opinion on democracy means little to some of the names inovloved..who supposedly fought for Democracy themselves...Ahh but ones mans democracy maybe differs from anothers... My own view is charitiable though...the conspirators were just plain daft.

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

I too was astounded about the mention of Mountbatten. Not a fan of his, but I didn't think he was that prominent by then? Must have been unwelcome TV for his daughter? Still think the Bootnecks were in there somewhere. [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]

No.9

Number 9, as an aside, the local 'commando association here in my home town, is looking for new members...Apparantly the national association disbanded last year???

They got a spot in local press, so I went along to the local Navy club and tried to fob em off...Apparantly Red caps dont have any association with commandos, but catering corps does...I demand to know if this is down to the old dislike of folk like meself..I told them I did have a link...I well remember in Bath on a multinational exercise for the old Afnorth quici reaction corps...forget the real name of the units..I along with a colleague stopped a bootneck and asked to see his ID by the railway station..Surely thats a link...

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

Sorry I couldn’t reply sooner urqh, I bin away on the vino. Yes, the Commando Association (of Old Comrades of the Army Commandos) formally and ceremoniously stood down in Portsmouth last September. This of course has no bearing on the Royal Marines Association etc. The Commando Association was formed in Achnacarry by commandant Charles Vaughn after Achnacarry became established as the Commando basic training centre in 1942. As the Commandos were formed in June 1940, not all Commandos were members (because for one thing not all Commandos passed through Achnacarry), and some never knew of the Association. Furthermore, not all Commandos were interested in an Association or in maintaining an interest post war as the years moved on.

Initially the Association did not accept Marines, but even when this rule was changed, a rule which never changed was that membership was only open to Commandos of 1940-1945 service – hence the Association had built-in obsolescence. At the standdown there were only about 150 or so Commando Veterans there. Actually the Association tried to close down several times in the past, but enough members insisted it limp on, probably towards the end in little more than name only. The biggest real ‘final gathering’ was probably at Fort William in 2002 to mark the 50th anniversary of the unveiling of the Commando Memorial at Spean Bridge in 1952 by HM Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother - 2002 by Prince Phillip.

Other than the 40-45 rule, their other great shortcoming was a small band of ‘old boy’ chiefs who refused to give up control despite their great ages and progressive blatant inability to run an antiquated association in modern times. The continued esprit de corps is admirable, but the logic and reality of it all is ludicrous. Take the piece in your local press you refer to, those responsible actually have in their mind that dozens of former comrades will come bouncing into the meeting hall and swell membership. [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]

You don’t say where you ‘home town’ currently is (I fort you wos London?), but if this was an exercise by the old Bristol Branch, I doubt if you’d have been happy there. If you’re in the west country and willing to travel as far as say Taunton, I might be able to help out?

No.9

In Northamptonshire. Rose of the Shires apparantly...But spent oodles of service time in West Country..Mainly around Bath area.

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.

Say no more urqh, you’re slap bang next to Cambridgeshire, home of one the most malicious, deviant, megalomaniac geriatric imaginable. You had a lucky escape being declined squire.

No.9