Hi all, I've been researching this for a longgg longgg time using only a few sprinkles of information I've learned from my mother and his discharge papers. My grandfather died a year before I was born but it's been a quest of mine to figure out very specifically where and who he was with.

Stuff my mom told me
He was in North Africa
He was in Italy
He was in Germany and helped liberate/liberated a concentration camp
General Mark Clark was the commanding General

Stuff I found out myself
General Mark Clark commanded 5th Army
After Rome was taken 6th Corp split and became 4th Corp (stayed in Italy) and the rest were molded into 7th Army (continued into France/Germany)

From Pictures
Not much lol
He's next to one artillery piece (what looks like an 105mm) in most of the pictures along with some other men in a sandy beach environment
He's not wearing any insignia nor are any of the other men (could these be pictures of advanced training in North Africa before the invasion into Italy?)

From Discharge Papers that could help
Heres where it gets hard to decipher
Michele J. Fuschetto
451st. Engineer Detachment Company
Arm or Service: C.E.
Component: ERC
Date of Seperation: 12 Nov 45
Date of Entry Into Active Service: 27 Jan 42
Place of Entry Into Active Service: Ft. Dix NJ
Military Occupation: Supply Clerk 835
Military Qualifications and Date: Carbine M1 A MM135 4 Apr 44, Comb. Inf. Badge 9051 HQ.338 Inf. 8 Sep 44
Battles and Campaigns: Rome Arno GO 33 WD 45 As Amended
Date of Departure: 25 Apr 44
Destination: M.T.O
Date of Arrival: 4 May 44
Date of Departure: 25 Oct 45
Destination: U.S.A
Date of Arrival: 6 Nov 45
Reason and Authority For Separation: Convenience of the Government AR 615-365 15 Dec 44 &RR 1-1 Demobilization
Remarks: Inactive ERC from 15 Oct 41 to 26 Jan 42
ASR Score 2 Sept 1945 69


Thats it. A lot of the abbreviations I know already.
MTO=Mediterranean Theater of Operations
GO=General Order
WD=War Departmet
ASR score were his points to get home

Thats all of my knowledge and the information I have. I pray that someone on these forums could help me out since I've exhausted my resources on the free internet. I can't find any 451st company that was detached. I can't find troop ship sailing dates that match the dates listed above. I can't even find out of the list of divisions that were in the Rome-Arno campaign, a division that matches his date of arrival into Africa.

Thank you so much in advanced for any information that could help me out at all!

Hello Magistr,

I went ahead and moved this thread to the area specifically dedicated to your searches, it should get better attention here. You also have the example of other members in here who have been tracking down family history.

Good luck with your searches.

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Thanks Otto

Maybe he wasn't with a Divison.
Maybe his unit was a VI Corps unit and attatched to lower formations when needed.
Or am I getting 451st Engineer Depot Company confused with 451st. Engineer Detachment Company??


Order of Battle • VI Corps

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The unit mentioned on his his discharge papers is not necessarily a unit he served with while overseas. It probably is, but is not ironclad. Many units were broken up in Europe and the men rolled into other units for transfer home. Also he could have had enough points to go home and was part of unit slated to stay in theater, so he could have transfered to a unit that was headed home. Unfortunately, the last unit he was a part of shows up on his discharge.

Anyway, I cannot find a 451st Engineer Detachment Company in my books. Owen, you are correct, it was a corps asset, being part of VI as indicated on this page: Order of Battle • VI Corps This is the only page I could find on them, must be the one you were looking at.

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JW

Standing on beach next to arty? Might be Anzio?

For VI Corps engineers go to VI Corps Combat Engineers WWII by good friend Marion Chard...

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Well that does clear up a lot of questions. I do wonder if the 451st Engineer Depot is the same as what were talking about. I need to look into 451st Depot.

But that really sucks that they only list the group he went home with and doesn't list previous units. Is there any way to look up that type of information? Like a search of soldiers and all units they served with.

I know its a slim chance they could have that detailed of records. Maybe I should look at the photos with a magnifying glass and see if I can see something post-Africa. Where should I be looking on the uniforms? Right sleeve to see if I can see a unit patch? I'll go and check it out after dinner and respond back if I find anything.

I'm going to try to scan some pictures to post, maybe you all could better identify them.

What a great & knowledgeable bunch of members we have here, less than two hours since the first post, and already some good progress. Cheers to you all!

Carry on gentlemen, I'll follow along from the wings.

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The fact that the 451st does not show up in my book leaves me to believe it was a Service of Supply organization and not a combat arm. In other words, they did mostly quartermaster duties, rear echelon transport and construction,among other duties. My book only lists only engineer units whose primary job put them under fire, such as Shore Engineer Regiments and Combat Engineer Battalions.

I think there is a way to get his records, which should list the units he was a part of, provided his were not one of the records that burned in the 1973 fire. I don't know how to go about securing deceased records, someone here can help with that. Check back over the next several days to see if some posts that information.

Please post the pics, you never know who has a sharp eye and notices something.

__________________
Best Regards,
JW

You probably already have this but this is from his Enlistment form:

ARMY SERIAL NUMBER 32157598 32157598
NAME FUSCHETTO#MICHELE#J#
RESIDENCE: STATE 22 NEW JERSEY
RESIDENCE: COUNTY 017 HUDSON
PLACE OF ENLISTMENT 2280 TRENTON NEW JERSEY
DATE OF ENLISTMENT DAY 23 23
DATE OF ENLISTMENT MONTH 06 06
DATE OF ENLISTMENT YEAR 41 41
GRADE: ALPHA DESIGNATION PVT# Private
GRADE: CODE 8 Private
BRANCH: ALPHA DESIGNATION BI# Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA
BRANCH: CODE 00 Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA
FIELD USE AS DESIRED # #
TERM OF ENLISTMENT 0 Undefined Code
LONGEVITY ### ###
SOURCE OF ARMY PERSONNEL 0 Civil Life
NATIVITY O0 ITALY or SAN MARINO
YEAR OF BIRTH 10 10
RACE AND CITIZENSHIP 1 White, citizen
EDUCATION 7 3 years of college
CIVILIAN OCCUPATION 957 Unskilled occupations in laundering, cleaning, dyeing, and pressing apparel and other articles
MARITAL STATUS 1 Single, with dependents
COMPONENT OF THE ARMY 7 Selectees (Enlisted Men)
CARD NUMBER # #
BOX NUMBER 0472 0472
FILM REEL NUMBER 2.136 2.136

source:NARA - AAD - Main Page

Interesting that he was born in San Marino, Italy...Moved with the family (I assume) to the US, became a citizen and joined in 1941...

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Yeah Stevin I have seen that and I strongly believe that well known fire that wiped a lot of Veteran information records effected his record. Some of the information I think was damaged, like how it says pretty much unknown for his term of enlistment and what branch he was in (he definetley was not a warrant officer) also he was a PFC not a PVT and he was single without dependents but he may have fudged that up since he was an immigrant who didn't speak excellent English.

Hi Magistr,

Mind you, this form was written up when he enlisted in 1941. So they all came in as PVT and at this point. This was even before Basic Training, they had no idea where they would end up anyway. The " BRANCH: CODE 00 Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA", I come across that one with almost all of them. Don't know why they did that. Lure them with a "promise" to become an officer??? Probably not, but I wonder why I see that on nearly all the forms...

From my own research I have learned that information on this form is often incorrect. Occupation was usually a preset number of occupations that one could choose from which often did not cover the real job. Also the year of birth has been known to be faulty (whose "mistake" that would be remains often a mystery...). And indeed, I have come across a fw instances when the dependency entry was wrong as well.....

As always, nothing is infallible...

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Now all of that I didn't know, thank you very much for that good piece of information

I'm going to go and attempt to scan some pictures to the computer now.

Update: Gotta wait until tomorrow to scan them at CVS and put them on a cd to put onto the computer.

Ok so CVS doesn't make CD's from pictures on a scanner so now I have to wait until tomorrow to use my friends flat bed scanner =/ There will be pics up eventually lol

Awesome I was able to take groups of pictures with my camera.
Each picture I took represents 1 location the group of pictures were taken. If I put a question mark it means I'm not 100% positive.

Barracks at Basic Training?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...d/DSCN3614.jpg

North Africa?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...d/DSCN3615.jpg

Italy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...d/DSCN3616.jpg

Top Left picture I added just because it was cool in my opinion, it's my grandfathers nephew in the Italian Army Infantry
Bottom Right picture is the only one labeled of this group which says "Mike and Italy Friends"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...d/DSCN3617.jpg

If anyone can help me out to decipher and be 100% about these pictures, or if anyone can take information from these pictures and be able to figure out what division he was in, which is my entire goal, that would be much appreciated

If anyones on here that recognizes these pictures/locations let me know immediately!
Also if you need to see a picture more closely, let me know and I'll scan that individual one in so it'll be larger on the screen.

Fairly easy:

This little item tells us what we want to know:

Comb. Inf. Badge 9051 HQ.338 Inf. 8 Sep 44

He was awarded a Combat Infantryman Badge by Headquarters, 338th Infantry Regiment on 8 Sept 44.

That puts him in the 85th Infantry Division, 338th Infantry Regiment at the time. The history of this division is consistant with what you know about his service. It landed in North Africa where it staged for Italy. From there it was sent to the Rome area via Anzio after the breakout and then fought in Italy through the end of the war ending up in Southern Germany.

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Wow T.A. Gardner, you are AWESOME! I'll buy you a huge gift basket if I ever meet you lol. That is awesome.

Why would he not have gotten his Combat Inf Badge during basic training? Why did he receive his when he was already in combat?

According to
U.S. Army Divisions of World War II: 85th Infantry Division, Casualties, Generals, Battles & Campaigns
it says the 85th was sent to Casablanca on 2 Jan 44 but my grandfathers discharge papers say he was sent over seas on 25 Apr 44. I'm not sure how troop shipments worked, could you explain that to me? Maybe they did it by regiment?

On that website it says North Apennines and Po Valley campaigns, why aren't these listed on his discharge papers?

My mom told me that he saw the atrocities that happened in a concentration camp, from what I read the 85th didn't liberate or help liberate a concetration camp (U.S. Army units) could she be mistaken or maybe the 85th ventured into a concentration camp after its liberation?

One more thing, the 338th Regiment was trained at Camp Shelby, MS, not Ft. Dix, NJ, how did that work (I noticed 328th Field Artillery was trained a Ft. Dix though, they were a part of the 85th)? Is there a list of regiments trained at Ft. Dix somewhere? I can't find any. The only thing I found linking any other part of the 85th to Ft. Dix was that the 337th Infantry left Camp Shelby and came to Ft. Dix to prepare for there departure to the Mediterranean.

Thank you so much again though for at least deciphering the 85th division

The CIB was awarded for time in combat. Combat Infantryman Badge

He probably was a replacement. It could be that he did not necessarily train with the division or he could have been in one of the divisions in training that was stripped to provide replacements for divisions overseas.

__________________
Best Regards,
JW

I suspect from your photographs that your granddad was in the regimental cannon company (that's likely why he has photos of a gun crew firing a 75mm cannon). After basic training which was not usually done with the division he went to speciality training and then to the division or, to the division and then to speciality training. In the case of artillery (and many other specialist trades) it did not always happen at the same place as the division was officially located.....You were sent on temporary orders to a school to learn the skill and then returned to the division.

The CIB is earned for being in combat. I suspect in this case he was seconded (that is pulled from what was supposed to be his job) to be an infantryman in the regiment. This is quite commonly done. Since you know his MOS was 835 Supply Clerk this is very, very likely to happen. Clerks are seen as nothing but an immediate pool of replacements in a division in combat, particularly ones that are not in some critical position.

As for the lack of the other campaigns on his record, this is very common. Clerks making records entries often left stuff off, got it wrong, never made the entry, etc. I had to have my own DD 214 retyped five (5!) times before I'd sign it as correct. Many soldiers really didn't care at the time about their records being straight; just surviving was far more important.

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Truth is stranger than bullshit!