Hello to all!

[Skipper]

Excellent! it was war context and an old saying here says "call a cat a cat".

[Flying Tiger]

those scout planes maybe small, but when they call those PT boats in or, the base for them. You wont see just one plane, more like a dosen more come out of the blue.

Jack, have u ever witnessed a Kamikazi attack?

[SouthWestPacificVet]

Hello Flying Tiger,

I never witnessed an airborne Kamikaze attack, but I have seen the smoldering aftermath of a few, seems to me it was Mindoro, we had two LST's badly damaged, late in '44 prior to the Leyte and Luzon landings.

Air attacks at sea would have every gun in action, with the men scrambling for ammunition, a lot of noise, smoke, and confusion. General quarters would sound, "incoming aircraft starboard quarter" boom boom boom, the sky would be filled with tracers and air bursts. They knew their jobs those Navy fellas, we were all just cargo along for the ride.

The ship I rode back to the states on in '45 was an AP which had suffered a Kamikaze hit prior to my coming aboard, just behind the forecastle, they had lost a number of men in the attack, and had picked up some of the twisted wreckage. About 7 or 8 days underway, remains of three more crew members were found, and we had a service at sea to bury them.

[Skipper]

The physcological effect of possibly Kamikaze attacks must have been terrible. Not knowing if or/and when you were going to be attacked must have been a scary thought. I'm glad you never witnessed such an attack.

[SouthWestPacificVet]

Skipper,

After a time there seems to a point where a man's fear is gone, and there was plenty to be afraid of, mortar fire is a very good example of that, but that emotion dries up, or gets used up to put things in more simple terms, I think nature finds a way to help you cope. You end up being more concerned about the men in your command, and the ones around you, than yourself. More than once I have had my heart beating so loud I thought someone else might hear it. Every man is different, but most human reactions are the same, later in life other emotions can hit you like a ton of bricks at times, once again I can only speak for myself.

Take care my friend,

[Skipper]

I see. It's the extraordinary capacity of the human being who is able to adapt to almost any situation. I suppose you had no time to think about yourself any way. Those who did probably ended up going nuts or dead. I know that feeling of having your heart beating loud with the increasing adrenaline.

[travelinbabs]

Originally Posted by SouthWestPacificVet

later in life other emotions can hit you like a ton of bricks at times, once again I can only speak for myself.

Take care my friend,

You're not alone in that: my father suffered more from his ETO memories later in life -- or should I say that the memories seemed to come more frequently and intensely, later in his life? and that because of them -- and his desire to avoid talking about them -- he found it increasingly difficult to deal with a number of seemingly unrelated emotional situations. It was difficult for me to watch, because I loved him... because he'd been such a good man... because he'd done so many wonderful things for so many young people (he'd been a coach, and a good one, at that)... because I believed that he deserved to be happy... but he could not.

Again, I applaud you for being here, for talking of your experiences, for sharing with us the person that they've made you, now.

[Skipper]

Well said Travelingbabs. Many of us know how hard it is for our fathers to speak about the hell they have been through. This makes my admiration for Jack and other Veterans so high. They all think about as WWII if it was yesterday, sometimes in a nightmare, sometimes as a day dream. Many have tried to tell their friends in neigbours when they returned, but were not believed or worse, people did not care or understand. So they stopped telling what they thought to be "Bothering". Then they tried to live with theses memories deep inside their minds. They would remember the slightest detail such as a unit number, the day of the loss of a friend, the colour of their vehicle, even smells and noises would bring flash backs in their minds. At the evening of their life, some would still want to tell, others would never do again and pass away. Their descendents are now trying to solve mysteries, usually a third generation ,because the second often did not ask because they believed they could do so everyday. Now that the great Generation is shooting it's last cartridges, we should consider their stories with the highest esteem and encourage our dear Veterans to tell thier memories. It must be hard, only they know, we can only guess. I think that being on this forum is also our way to show them our understanding and our gratitude, this is true for all veterans from all wars.

[travelinbabs]

Originally Posted by Skipper67

Now that the great Generation is shooting it's last cartridges, we should consider their stories with the highest esteem and encourage our dear Veterans to tell thier memories. It must be hard, only they know, we can only guess. I think that being on this forum is also our way to show them our understanding and our gratitude, this is true for all veterans from all wars.

After logging off of the forum, last night, I was thinking about what Jack (our thread starter, here), was saying about recon patrols... and I was chuckling over the story of leaving surveyors' stakes on one site. It reminded me of a story one of my friends told me about LRRP in Viet Nam -- that's my generation -- anyway... he was a more savvy map reader than the brass realized, and he figured out that his recon patrol was in Cambodia -- oops -- and he caught a bit of flak for mentioning it at the time.

In my dad's case, WRT WWII, I think that he carried a lot of guilt -- perhaps the survivors' guilt -- but probably more guilt for not having been able to save more soldiers -- he was with the nursing corps until ending up in the infantry. That's just a guess, on my part, but that's the kind of guy he was: thinking that he could always have done just one more little thing for someone.

[Skipper]

Sorry to hear your dad never told you his memories.

Isn't that terrible fighting for a just cause and having an unjustified feeling of guilt, possibly because you think your own loved ones wouldn't understand or fearign to face criticism from people who have never left their village whereas you could have died for them? I perfectly understand what you mean. There are things that are not need to be said. If you deserve to know you just know. Too bad your dad did not have the opportunity to help you to read in between the lines.

[SouthWestPacificVet]

Hello Friends,

I've been away for a bit, I'll need to do some catching up as soon as I can. I had few days stay in the hospital, It's good to be home and see the sun come up this morning.

Babs, If I may jump in here, you are correct about your dad, certain sounds, smells, sights, even certain noises can spark memories of past events. One can feel the reaction of those around you when those awkward moments occur. The word guilt hits the nail on the head so to speak, guilt for the things you had done, guilt for coming home when so many better men could not. Guilt while second guessing yourself for what could have been done differently, and let me add you can physically ache inside for not saving someone, you tend to remember them in images of those last few moments, I've caught myself remembering faces in groups of strangers from time to time.

For me, there was a certain shame in explaining what I did over the course of five years to my family, one can't speak at the dinner table of how effective you had become at using a knife in the dark, or telling your brother how you ended a fight bashing a head against a rock.

[Skipper]

One thing is for sure Jack, most people on this forum will understand you. Having studied WWII for decades will never bring me as close as those who were on the field, but at least we're in the same dimension. Your family can be proud of you. How many sons, nephews , grandsons are doing research about their parents because they could never get to the point of sharing such terrible thoughts. You have the courage to do so. This is actually quite rare.
I know I am thanking you once again, but rather too many times than not enough, especially because you are not eternal and a precious witness of this Great Generation.

[Slipdigit]

Mr Jack,

I cannot tell you how to feel, what to think or what to remember. The only solace I can offer is to remind you that you didn't ask to go there and under normal circumstances would not have seen nor participated in the actions that still affect your life to this day. What you did is not reflective of the person that you are, only the reaction to the more baser aspects of humanity. I have no doubt that were things different and there was no war, you could have enjoyed a beer or sake with those men who were trying so hard to kill you.

Thanks for going.

[travelinbabs]

Originally Posted by SouthWestPacificVet

Babs, If I may jump in here....

On the contrary -- it's your thread -- I hope not to take it off-topic I also hope that your reason for going to hospital is finished, now.

Originally Posted by SouthWestPacificVet

For me, there was a certain shame in explaining what I did over the course of five years to my family, one can't speak at the dinner table of how effective you had become at using a knife in the dark, or telling your brother how you ended a fight bashing a head against a rock.

Yes, I understand. Life was different, then, from what it is now; the patriotism that existed then was much more widespread and a part of life. Also, I think that the Allies went in expecting the fighting to be more... valorous (? or gentlemanly?) than it turned out being -- especially those of you who fought the Japanese: there was a huge cultural divide, there, in terms of how far soldiers were expected to go for their countries... not to mention the differing beliefs in what constituted shameful action on the part of a soldier and how it was to be dealt with... all of which led Allied soldiers having to go to lengths that, in their previous experience, would be unheard of.

I remember hearing one WWII vet say that the soldiers "did things with our bayonets that no man ever spoke of." And how could you... and still believe that you are good human being? From my point of view, the saddest part of any war is how it steals the innocence of those who survive it.

You, Jack, and my dad, and the millions of others like you, did a job that very few ever want to do. And you did it well. And I appreciate it.

In terms of answering my questions, my dad would give whatever information he was willing to -- usually enough to get me off on a tangent or thoroughly confuse me -- but he was clearly more comfortable talking about it in general terms rather than personal. I spent the summer of 2006 walking around Alsace, France, and the Rhine, and having seen some of the places where my father fought -- I even saw some of the trenches left over from WWI -- I can understand why he would not want to dredge up those memories and explain it all to me.

Ha-ha: I'm a wilderness backpacker, and my sister once suggested to my dad that he accompany me on one of my trips (which are one to three weeks long). His response was: I did enough camping in Europe to last two lifetimes. And yet he was all ears when I'd tell him about coming face-to-face with a bear... or being saved from sliding down a canyon by a well placed agave

[Skipper]

Traveling babs. There are some nice threads about Alsace on this forum. I was there in 2007 and so was Martin and possibly others.
Since we are talking about Alsace and Lorraine and veterans, at the risk of getting slightly off topic, I have a story to tell you about a veteran. The man was a Lorrain who was who enlisted in the Wehrmacht by force in 1944 while only aged 16. He participated at the battle of Metz. He remembered absolutley every detail and I rouglhy spent 6 hours listening to him. He would tell me his memories from the very day of the war when he was still a kid to his surrender to the U.S. Soldiers in 1944. He still spoke German perfectly and mentionned the story as if it happened yesterday. He would switch from German to French and would even quote speeches and said that every night when he fell asleep he would go back to the trenches, he said this with tears in his eyes.... This a perfect example of a stolen innocence and a stolen youth (or life) .

[travelinbabs]

Thanks, Skipper -- I'll go check that out

I don't want to derail this thread -- I'm really enjoying the pics of Japanese planes; I don't have any books with good photos of them. And I'm enjoying Jack's tales and hope to hear more.

[SouthWestPacificVet]

Travelinbabs, Skipper,

I used the same reply countless times myself when the kids were young, "I've done my share of sleeping on the ground, in the mud, and the rain". That was around the time we bought our first boat, one we could all sleep aboard.

A few years back my son wanted me to fly back to visit a few of the islands we had been on. I did return to Pearl Harbor the year before last, for the 65th tribute, I met General Chuck Yeager, Tom Brokaw and his wife.

The last time I saw the Arizona she had a barge alongside as she was being fueled, when I saw her in December of 2006, some of the fuel oil was floating up in front of me in the water, that was a sight to see.

My hat's off to the fellows who returned to France, and other places in the ETO, that took some courage to walk among the dead again.

[Skipper]

Originally Posted by travelinbabs

I'm really enjoying the pics of Japanese planes; I don't have any books with good photos of them. And I'm enjoying Jack's tales and hope to hear more.

travelingbabs: I have a bunch somewhere, I"ll scan them for you later and will post a couple on this fine thread, jack will probably recognize a few.

Jack I saw a documentary on TV about the Arizona and saw the fuel drops bubbling too after 67 years! I also heard the story of the Japanese pocket sub that stranded on the beach and forcing the kamikaze crew of two to surrender ( one managed to commit suicide before) . The second guy was never allowed to return to Japan and had to emigrate to Brazil afte rthe war. A diving crew has found one the mini subs that was sunk hours before the attack by a u.s. Ship. The crew told high command , but they never believed them. This could have saved lives by allowing crews to leave ships.