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Friendly Air to Air Kills. Blue on Blue incidents

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by JCFalkenbergIII, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Supermarine Walrus

    L2220
    L2220
    19? The aircraft was acquired by the Royal Air Force (RAF).
    19? The aircraft was allocated to 276 Squadron.
    20Mar1945 The aircraft was straffed and sunk by Thunderbolts when it could not take off after an a rescue landing. The crew were picked up by a Catalina.
    Clyde North Aeronautical Preservation Group - CNAPG.
     
  2. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    23Apr41 Greece
    Three Ju-88's of I/LG1 fire on a Bf-109E of Stab/JG77 flown by Ofw Erwin Sawallisch. Sawallisch's Bf-109 is hit and he returns fire killing one of the crew of one Ju-88. Sawallisch is then able to force land at his base at Krumovo. (Reference: Air War For Yugoslavia, Greece and Crete 1940-41 by C. Shore and B. Cull w/ N. Malizia)
     
  3. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Pilot Lt(jg) Richard "Dick" W. Moore (survived) La Grande, OR
    Ditched September 16, 1943
    Pilot History
    Richard Moore had served briefly in aboard a carrier off Attu, then assigned to the South Pacific. On January 29, 1943 he was shot down over the Munda area, loosing his first plane "Betsy", named after his wife. His next Hellcat was "Betsy II". After this incident, he was shot down and rescued off Japan in 1945, and was rescued by a destroyer. He passed away in 1978, but his wingman received news of the discovery of his Hellcat.
    Aircraft History
    Built by Grumman at Bethpage, New York. Manufacturer number A553, was accepted by the the US Navy on June 26, 1943, and delivered the following day. Dispatched to the Pacific on July 10, 1943, arriving in Honolulu, Hawaii the following day, and overseas to Nouméa on July 14. It was assigned to VF-38 on September 13 based at Fighter One on Guadalcanal. Officially stricken from the record on October 6, 1943.
    Mission History
    This Hellcat took off from Munda Airfield at 1:15pm to escort for 24 TBFs attacking Ballale Island. Other aircraft on the mission included and 31 SBDs. Other escorts consisted of 13 Hellcats from VF-38 and 11 from VF-40. In addition to VMF-214 "Black Sheep" F4U Corsairs, RNZAF P-40, P-38's making up a total of 71 escorting fighters.
    Over the target, 40-50 intercepting Zeros and Tonys were met, and heavy anti-aircraft over the target. In the ensuing dogfights, 3 Zeros were destroyed and a probable claimed by VF-38.
    F6F Hellcat 25940 piloted by Lt(jg) Presley, led the last division of F6Fs providing low cover for the TBF Avengers. Lt(jg) Moore was the second section leader, with Lt. (jg) Beaumont as his wingman. As the TBFs were beginning their attack when Moore saw an F4U about a half mile away at 50 ft above him.
    VF-38 Combat Report, page 2 states:
    "At first Moore thought it a Zero, then recognized it as an F4U, as did his wingman. The Corsair was flying alone. Moore turned into him as the F4U came in at him straight above. The Corsair started firing at about 100 yds. range, and Moore pulled up a bit and fired a burst in retaliation, as did his wingman. A 50 caliber bullet hit Moore's engine high on the port side. It started to throw oil and began smoking, although no heavily. Moore and Beaumont left the other section and set out for Munda, diving to about 500 ft."
    They got as far as Blackett Strait, about a mile south of Kolombangara when Moore's engine cut out. He had no trouble making a water landing, flaps down in full stall at approximately 3:30pm. He stood on a wing, then dropped into the water and inflated his life jacket. He was about 100 ft. from a reef and in shallow water. As soon as he got into his raft he saw two native canoes putting out from a small island. The first canoe carried about 15 natives and the second canoe carried about six natives and Pvt. Nash of the U.S. Army, who took Moore to a Coastwatcher Lt. Evans.
    Taken to Evans quarters on an island about one mile south of Kolombangara. Moore received dry cloths, a cup of tea and some fresh limeade. He was then taken by canoe a couple of miles east to Arundel where the US Army were shelling Kolombangara. It was then about 7:30pm. He remained there overnight, and at 800, Sept 17, departed for Munda.
    Wreckage
    This Hellcat was discovered intact off Quomu Island by Danny Kennedy, owner of Dive Gizo in 1986. The plane was in remarkable condition, even the navigation charts in the cockpit.
    Perfectly intact, the only more contemporary damage was caused by divers. The ammunition magazines covers are open. The engine cover is missing and you can see the oil tank, with its armored cover providing protection from the front.
    Michael McFadyen dove the wreck October 18, 2001:
    "When I dived it, we were asked to replace some 0.50 inch rounds stolen from the plane a week earlier by a group of Sydney divers. The plane has two obvious bullet holes, one in the front of the tail and one behind the cockpit. There does not appear to be any hole in the oil tank so it would appear an oil line was hit."
    References
    VF-38 Combat Report, September 16, 1943 pages 1-2
    Thanks to Danny Kennedy of Dive Gizo for additional information
    The Black Sheep & Black Sheep One by Bruce Gamble
    Michael McFadyen's Scuba Diving - Gumman Hellcat
    US Navy Loss lists Bu No 25839 as associated with pilot Anderson
    US Navy Loss lists Moore as associated with a Hellcat without BuNo

    F6F-3 Hellcat "Betsy II" Bureau Number 25839
     
  4. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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  5. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    "On 22/11/44, US P-51s shot down an RAF Lysander from 148 Squadron near Venice, presumably having mistaken it for a Hs126. The RAF pilot was killed, as were his passengers, variously described as two British decorated SOE officers/or/ four Italian agents (according to AHB)."
     
  6. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    "11th November 1944 brought an unfortunate case when the 43 Sqn were set upon by six USAAF Mustangs. Leading six Spitfires from No.43 Sqn on an area cover over Padua, the WinCo W/C Ernie Wootton DFC found his a/c being bounced by the P-51. Splitting the formation up, he ordered "Don´t shoot" as it became a case of every man for himself in a game of survival.
    Fortunately, the unidentified Mustangs broke off the attack, but not before the Spitfires flown by F/Ls Creed and Cummings had been badly shot up. Creed had managed to c/l PV667 on the aerodrome at Rimini not badly hurt, but Cummings´ Spitfire PT585, was seen to going into a dive and it was later learned that he had been killed."
     
  7. Fallschirmjaeger

    Fallschirmjaeger Member

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    In a way, it's kind of nice that they put the flag there. It shows their respect towards the countries and their ability to account for their actions.
     
  8. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    "...On 4th May when Fortresses were sent to bomb a factory at Antwerp, the 56th was briefed to meet them as they left the target. My radio again failed, just before the Group reached the Dutch coast. Incensed, I handed over to McCollom and turned for home. This was my second forced turnback for equipment failure and I was concerned that some of the men might view this as the excuse of the faint-hearted. As I turned back for Horsham St. Faith to vent my wrath on the radio mechanics, I thought I saw a parachute far below. Only later did I connect this with what happened on this mission. The bombers were seen shortly after crossing the enemy coast and the group turned to cover them. Near Walcheren Island some FW 190s were reported making passes at the leading bombers as McCollom led his flight down to attack. Mac lined up behind one fighter and opened fire. As pieces flew off his victim and it spun down it was clearly seen to be a Spitfire! Back at Horsham St. Faith I listened to the debriefing and the confused and contradictory nature of individual pilots' reports. It was clear that some people were not only mistaking FW 190s for Spitfires but P-47s for FW 190s. Reports of Spitfires with 'solid yellow tails' could also be discounted. Excitement, speed of closure, sun glare and restricted vision through the cockpit canopy all contributed to mistaken observations; a situation confronting all fighter pilots but in this case exacerbated by inexperience. The RAF and 'Ajax' were, understandably, far from pleased with the 56th's performance, although our errant group could rightly plead that it had not been briefed for Spitfires in that area. For me this was particularly galling for as group commander I was ultimately responsible and had to meet General Hunter's summons to explain. For all our endeavors there was no hiding the fact that the 56th's bad score to date; two 'friendly' aircraft shot down and two P-47s lost, was certainly not a creditable showing..."

    See p.76, Freeman, Roger. Zemke's Wolf Pack: The Story of Hub Zemke and the 56th Fighter Group in the skies over Europe (New York: Crown Publishers, 1989).
     
  9. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    A couple of incidents from Focke-Wulf Fw 190 in North Africa, Arthy and Jessen:
    • Fw 190 A5 0152 538 from 6/JG 2 shot down on 3 March 1943 by a I/JG 53 Bf 109 while landing, pilot Fw Uberbacher KIA
    • Fw 190 A5 0142 515 from 11/SKG 10 shot down by sweeping II/JG 77 Bf 109s on 2 April 1943 while on a fighter bomber mission, pilot Uffz von Zareba KIA
    Finally, Don Caldwell's JG 26 War Diary Vol 2 reports Fw 190 D9 210 188 from 5/JG 26 being shot down by a III/JG 1 Bf109 on 24 Dec 1944, Lt Benz KIA.
    Friendly fire WWII - Page 22 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum
     
  10. JCFalkenbergIII

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    "Courageous acts weren't limited to action in the air. On the 29th of April 1944, an American pilot flying a P-47 Thunderbolt mistakenly strafed Cutella airfield obviously thinking it was a German base. At thetime, L.A.C.s S. Reginald (Slim) Moore and K. M. Harris were servicing a Kittyhawk in the dispersal bay next to two other Kittyhawks that already had bombs loaded. Bullets from the P-47 set one of the Kittyhawks alight but before the flames spread, these two men, ignoring the possibility of the bomb exploding, unshackled it and rolled it clear of the burning aircraft. Then they taxied the other two Kittyhawks away from the fire. By doing so they may have saved a fire-holocaust in the dispersal area. Sadly, the distraught American who'd made the mistake, committed suicide the following day by deliberately crashing his aircraft shortly after he'd left the Squadron where he had attended with his Commanding Officer to make formal apology for his action."

    scroll down
     
  11. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    RAF Hurricane P3209. 73 Squadron. Shot down by a Spitfire and made forced-landing at Gravesend. Sergeant Leng was not injured. See Francis Mason / Battle Over Britain, p.385. Serial number from Francis Mason / The Hawker Hurricane, p.221, and Winston Ramsey / The Battle of Britain: Then and Now, p.448.

    RAF Hurricane L2039. 73 Squadron. Shot down by a Spitfire near Tonbridge. Squadron Leader M. W. S. Robinson was injured bailing out. See Francis Mason / Battle Over Britain, p.385. Serial number from Winston Ramsey / The Battle of Britain: Then and Now, p.448, and Norman L. R. Franks / RAF Fighter Command Losses, vol. I, p.82.

    RAF Hurricane; serial unknown. 73 Squadron. Shot down by a Spitfire near Maidstone. Sergeant J. J. Griffin bailed out without injuries. See Francis Mason / Battle Over Britain, p.385.

    RAF Hurricane V7209. 73 Squadron. Damaged in attack by a Spitfire over Tilbury. Aircraft hit in the radiator and Flight Lieutenant M. L. ff Beytaugh made a forced landing at West Malling without injury. See Francis Mason / Battle Over Britain, p.385, and Winston Ramsey / The Battle of Britain: Then and Now, p.448.

    RAF Hurricane L1981. 73 Squadron. Damaged in attack by a Spitfire. Pilot landed without injury, his name withheld. See Winston Ramsey / The Battle of Britain: Then and Now, p.448.

    RAF Hurricane; serial unknown. 73 Squadron. Damaged in attack by a Spitfire. Pilot Officer R. A. Marchand landed without injury. See Francis Mason / Battle Over Britain, p.385
     
  12. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    A2-21
    Crew F/lt. T. MacBride RAAF
    Lt. J. C. Bacon RN
    Attacked by RAF Gladiators while spotting at Bardia.
    Port u/c collapsed on landing at Mersa Matru date 21/6/1940.

    Ref: Air Brit FAA Aircraft 1939-45 and Profile magazine number224.
     
  13. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    "VC awarded to Flight Sergeant Arthur Aaron, VC, DFM of No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron. He was mortally wounded when the rear gunner of another Short Stirling opened fire on his aircraft while attacking Turin on 12/13th August 1943."
     
  14. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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  15. JCFalkenbergIII

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    One thing I have never really considered is what the reaction was of the pilot/crew that was being shot at. Did they try to defend themselves?
     
  16. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    And on the other hand did the aircraft that was being fired upon shoot down its attacker?
     
  17. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    [​IMG]
    PHOTOS: CANADIAN FORCES—PMR77-515; CANADIAN FORCES—PMR77-254
    Some Allied aircraft were sometimes confused with enemy aircraft. The plane at the top of the page is a Westland Lysander. Below it is a German HS.126.

    "At 9:50 p.m. on the night of Aug. 4, 1944, Flt. Lt. Walter G. Dinsdale, the pilot, and FO John E. Dunn, the navigator/ radar operator, took off from Colerne in their Mosquito of No. 410 Sqdn. They were an experienced crew, having already destroyed two enemy aircraft–three if one counted a Junkers 88/Bf.109 composite aircraft as two machines.
    A forward radar controller directed the Mosquito to a target, cancelled the vector, then renewed the order to look for a contact. Dinsdale and Dunn spotted an aircraft and pursued it. Dinsdale’s combat report described the action: “I closed in very rapidly expecting normal chase and overshot immediately. A flashing visual obtained on observation type aircraft clearly outlined by the moon. I orbited and regained contact at 6,000 feet range to starboard. I approached this time very cautiously and flaps down, Air Speed Indicator 130 mph. I had great difficulty in identifying aircraft, which was carrying a long-range tank between undercarriage. I followed aircraft for approximately 25 miles on a vector of 140 degrees. Finally identified as HS.126. No national markings could be seen. Opened fire at 400 feet with two short bursts, strikes seen on fuselage, and aircraft exploded and went down in flames and seen to hit the ground still burning. Position approximately south of Tours (France). I claim one HS.126 destroyed.”
    The action took place shortly after midnight and Dinsdale fired 60 rounds of 20-mm ammunition. The Henschel 126 was a high-wing monoplane with a radial engine, long obsolete in its designed role of army cooperation work, but still used by the Germans for communications work. Unhappily, there was another high-wing, radial-engined monoplane still in service–the Westland Lysander. It, too, had been rendered obsolete as an army cooperation airplane, but it had found new roles as a trainer, target-tug, search aircraft–and furtive transport, flying secret agents in and out of occupied Europe under cover of darkness. Dinsdale and Dunn had destroyed a Lysander belonging to No. 161 Sqdn., killing the RAF pilot–Flt. Lt. John P. Alcock–and his agent passenger, Lucien Germereau. Night fighter crews could not have been well briefed on Special Operations Executive spy flights, for otherwise the “long-range tank between undercarriage” would have rung alarm bells.
    These were the fortunes of war. Dinsdale and Dunn continued on operations, destroyed another German aircraft in December 1944, and were awarded DFCs in May 1945. Dinsdale–who died in 1982–became a member of Parliament and a cabinet minister. If any man paid his dues by public service, it was he."

    Lost To Friendly Fire: Air Force, Part 24 | Legion Magazine
     
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  18. TA152

    TA152 Ace

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    I never even thought of how much the two looked alike before but now I learned something new, thanks to you !
     
  19. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Thanks. :). I think that may be the crux for many of these incidents. Alot of aircraft on both sides looked similar especially in those tense Adrenaline filled moments of combat. Though some obvioulsy,like the P-38, hard hard to mistake LOL.
     
  20. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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