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Aircraft brought down by "Neutral" countries.

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by JCFalkenbergIII, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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  2. FNZ

    FNZ Member

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    Yeah, I guess it's not a "roundell" if it's not round. A squarell, maybe. :D
     
    Za Rodinu likes this.
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    With so many bombers in the Swiss Air Force I'm surprised they didn't start a war of their own, they sure had the stuff for it :D

    Lichtenstein, perhaps? San Marino? The Vatican?
     
  4. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    I forgot where I read it but I think that the Swiss had one of the top ten Bomber fleets in WWII in the amount of aircraft LOL
     
  5. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Found this very informative post in my Internet journeys on another discussion site :).


    Interned aircraft – What happened after the war ended?

    The below is information compiled mainly from the sources listed at the end of this posting. Information is by no means complete. More detailed info on aircraft involved can be found in the literature referred to at the end.

    SWITZERLAND

    244 foreign aircraft landed, crash landed or was shot down over Swiss territory in WW2 according to the Swiss AF website. 198 landed.

    American aircraft

    166 American aircraft arrived.
    41 were totally destroyed in crashes.
    39 badly damaged
    86 considered repairable.

    The Swiss Government did not allow Allied aircraft to return before the war with Japan ended.

    Between 27 August and 22 October 1945 totally 72 aircraft were flown to Burtonwood USAAF depot airfield in the UK; 30 B-17s, 41 B-24 and one P-51. Aircraft not considered flyable were scrapped in Switzerland.

    One L-5 Stinson, 42-99186 was used by the Swiss AF marked as ‘A-96’. It remained in Switzerland after the war purchased by Alpar AG and given civil registration HB-TRY.

    The USAAF aircraft flown to Burtonwood in UK were not flown over to the USA, but were all scrapped in the UK.

    British aircraft

    A Mosquito PR IV of the No 1 PRU landed on 24 August 1942 and was later flown and tested by the Swiss. This was the first British as well as Allied aircraft to emergency land in Switzerland. Eleven others followed. For aircraft data, see the website under “Sources” below.

    I found no info on their fate after the war. As the RAF mostly flew night raids over Germany, perhaps not that many succeeded in landing intact in darkness in Switzerland and the wrecks were subsequently scrapped. More info needed.

    German aircraft

    Several were allowed to return to Germany during the war, in particular liaison, training and communications aircraft. It was for example agreed that all Luftwaffe aircraft on Swiss soil up to the date of the French armistice in 1940 was to be returned, including wreckages. Armed aircraft, except for a Do-17 U5+BD from Stab III/ KG 2 landing on 21 April 1940 which was releases after strong pressure from Germa, seem to have been interned in Switzerland .

    Some Luftwaffe aircraft were later purchased for the Swiss armed forces from the Allied Disarmament Control Commission. I have found:

    Bf 108 D W.Nr 5061, CL+CE, Swiss reg A-218
    Bf 108 B W.Nr 1691, L5+AB, Swiss reg A-217
    Fw 44F, W.Nr462, NV+KF, Swiss reg A-95
    Bf 109 F-4Z, W.Nr, 7605, PC+JY, “10”, J-715, taken over 1946
    Bf 109 F-4, W.Nr, 7197, NW+KU, “9” , J-716, taken over 1946

    Bought from Germany in 1944 after landing 19 March 1943 in Switzerland:

    Fi 156 C-3/trop W.Nr 8063, Swiss reg A-97
    Fi 156 C-3/trop W.Nr 1144, Swiss reg A-98

    Bf 110G-4, C9+EN landing on 28 April 1944 was blown up, burnt and destroyed in exchange for a deal on 12 Bf 109 G-6 to be sold to the Swiss. This because the Germans feared that info regarding the brand new radar equipment would fall into the wrong hands.

    Most other German aircraft, not returned to Germany before the end of WW2, seems to have been scrapped in Switzerland. However, as a surprise the Me 262 W.Nr 500071 which landed in Dübendorf on 25 April 1945 turned up in and was handed over to Germany as a museum piece for Deutsche Museum in Munich.

    TURKEY

    Allied and Axis Aircraft landing in Turkey were interned and some which were flyable put into Turkish Air Force use, until becoming unserviceable due to lack of spare parts, or damaged beyond repair. The interned aircraft seem to have been scrapped and not returned to their country of origin or use after WW2. Several aircraft had also crash landed or crashed in Turkey during WW2 and these were probably scrapped rather sooner than later as they could not be used. 80 cases of landings or crashes involving foreign aircraft in Turkey during WW2 are listed in the article I refer to. See below for references.

    SWEDEN

    About 327 foreign aircraft emergency landed in Sweden during WW2.
    140 US
    113 German
    58 British
    16 Others

    In the following RSwAF stands for Royal Swedish Air Force.

    German

    Of the 113 Luftwaffe ac, about 40 German ac were returned to Germany during the war. Particularly during 1940-1942 Sweden was quite lenient towards letting German aircraft return to Germany. As the war developed the attitude towards German aircraft became less friendly or helpful, and several became interned together with their crews. A clear turning point is from February 1943 and onwards when Luftwaffe crews again became interned. This had also been the practice earlier, under the policy in place until November 1940 when the internment camp for Luftwaffe personnel was closed. By this time the fighting in Norway had ceased and fighting in the immediate vicinity of Swedish borders had stopped. About 30 Luftwaffe aircraft were scrapped in Sweden. Most of the scrapped aircraft were processed in 1945-49, but a Ju 88 4N+CH of 1.(F)/22 was scrapped as late as 1954.

    20 were handed over to USSR after the war as the Swedish Government was keen to please the victorious Soviet Union after the war, why aircraft and crew taking off from areas occupied by the Soviets were agreed to be handed over upon Soviet demands. Flyable Luftwaffe aircraft to be handed over to the Soviet Union were transferred to Bromma Airport, Stockholm, for hand over to Soviet personnel. Most aircraft were handed over on 1945-08-27--29 and 1945-11-08. Most, perhaps all were scrapped by the Soviets soon after being returned to Soviet controlled territory. In case of the aircrew, this hand over to the Soviets of course had some tragic consequences as they ended up in the Soviet war prison camp system. In total 2372 German service personnel and 146 from the Baltic States were handed over to the Soviets in December 1945 and January 1946.

    A further 7 Lw aircraft were taken over by the RSwAF

    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 110232 BM+PL 28./FlVerbG2 RSwAF S 14B 3826
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 5503 KR+QX 28./FlVerbG2 RSwAF S 14B 3822
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 1043(?) NL+UU RSwAF S 14B 3821
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 5440 PP+QA RSwAF S 14B 3825
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 1043 BD+VF 28./FlVerbG2 RSwAF S 14B 3823
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 5837 DJ+PC RSwAF S 14B 3824

    Do 24 T-3 W.Nr 3343 CM+RY Seenotgr 81, RSwAF designation Tp 24. Bought by RSwAF 1945.

    At least 12 Luftwaffe ac entered the Swedish civil aircraft register:

    Ar96B-1, W.Nr 425262, U+9B, bought 1945 became SE-AOA
    Ar96B-1, W.Nr 4081, CD+DH 119, , bought 1945 became SE-AOB
    Ar96A-5, W.Nr 2350, 6R+BL, bought 1945 became SE-AOD
    Ar96A-5, W.Nr 2351, 6R+UL, bought 1945 became SE-AOE
    Ar96A-5, W.Nr 2346, 6R+LL, bought 1945 became SE-ANT
    Ar196A-3, W.Nr 1006, DH+ZF, bought 1945 and became SE-AOU, later -AWY
    Bf108B-1, W.Nr 2158, L1+CF, bought 1949 became SE-BPZ
    Bü181C-1, 330745, PL+BN 35, bought 1944-09-12 became SE-BFG
    Bü181, W.Nr 502174, VN+NP 44, bought 1949 became SE-BPY
    Bü181, W.Nr 108, CR+YU, bought 1949 became SE-BNK
    Si204D-1, W.Nr 321583, D1+QK, bought 1952 became SE-BPW
    Ju W34, W.Nr 317, TF+NA, bought 1945 became SE-AOC

    A further two were handed over to German controlled territory in Swedish civil registration.

    British

    Out of the flyable British RAF aircraft none returned to the UK as all were scrapped in Sweden

    USA

    88 flyable B-17 and B-24 are to have been maintained in flying condition in WW2 and flown back to the UK, most of them becoming scrap. I found data on 85 of them being returned. Non-flyable aircraft and wrecks were scrapped in Sweden.

    After negotiations via the US Air Attaché to Sweden, Lt.Col. Felix Hardison, nine emergency landed B-17s were taken over in return for early repatriation of 300 interned USAAF aircrew, seven of which were rebuilt to 14 passenger transport configuration by SAAB and used by the Swedish airline ABA. The civil version was named ‘Felix’ after the US Air Attaché but also got individual names after USAAF aircrew:

    B-17G, 42-32076, ‘Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby’, Became SE-BAP (No name), now restored in museum, Dayton, Ohio.
    B-17G, 42-31490 used in rebuild of SE-BAN ‘Ted’
    B-17G, 42-31163 ‘A Good Ship & Happy Ship’, rebuilt SE-BAM ‘Tom’
    B-17G, 42-97115, rebuilt SE-BAO ’Bob’
    B-17G, 42-107067, became SE-BAR
    B-17F, 42-3543, ‘Sack-Time Suzy’ became SE-BAH ‘Sam’
    B-17F, 42-30661, ‘Veni,Vidi, Vici,’ rebuilt SE-BAK ’Jim’
    B-17F, 42-3217, ‘Georgia Rebel’, as spares used in rebuild of B-17 Felix ac.
    B-17F, 42-5827, ‘Lakanuki’, as spares used in rebuild of B-17 Felix ac.

    Shoo, Shoo, Shoo Baby today restored to original bomber configuration:
    [​IMG] ShooShooShoo_Baby_1.jpg ( 240.5K ) Number of downloads: 19

    Picture from Wikipedia web site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ShooShoo.jpg

    The Swedish negotiated to purchase fighters from the USA and as part of the deal four interned aircraft were taken over by the RSwAF:

    P-51 B-5, 43-6365, ‘Z Hub’, became J 26 26001 in RSwAF
    P-51 B-5, 43-6461 ‘Hot Pants’, became J 26 26002 in RSwAF
    P-51 D-5, 44-13345, ‘Mary Ann’, became J 26 26003 in RSwAF
    P-51 D-5, 44-13917 ‘You’ve Had It’, became J 26 26004 in RSwAF

    Others

    Italian (In Luftwaffe markings)
    Macchi 202, MM 9697, ,marked “16”, Wreck returned to Germany 1945-02-02.

    Polish
    RWD, Serial No. 216, used by RSwAF as TP 11 and later SE-AOF civil reg.

    Regarding interned Russian aircraft

    Few interned Russian aircraft found in my sources.

    Turkey.

    In the case of Turkey as “hosts” to interned aircraft, six cases are mentioned in the source I refer to below.

    07.08.1941 “Russian two engine bomber" Zonguldak 3 m political asylum
    03.12.1941 “Russian bomber”, out of fuel Rize 5 men interned
    18.06.1942 “Iljuschin”, destroyed in landing Hasankale Pilot interned
    24.03.1943 “Russian trainer” crashed Kars 2 men killed
    24.09.1944 “Jak-9” Landed intact Saray Pilot interned
    24.09.1944 “Jak-7” Landed intact, two-seater Babaeski Crew interned

    No further info on fate after the war. High probability they were scrapped.

    Switzerland

    I have seen only one reference to Soviet aircraft in Switzerland.

    A Yak-9 with a defecting pilot landed shortly after the war ended. The pilot was handed over to the Soviets.

    Sweden

    No Soviet aircraft was interned in Sweden during WW2.

    SOURCES:

    Info on aircraft interned in Switzerland:
    http://www.airwarweb.net/internedstart.php

    Interned in Switzerland:

    Deutsche Luftwaffe über der Schweiz 1939-1945 by Karl Ries [Verlag Dieter Hoffmann, Mainz, 1978, ISBN 3-87341-022-2]

    Strangers in a Strange Land Vol.II Escape to Neutrality by Hans-Heiri Stapfer and Gino Künzle [Squadron/signal publications, 1992, ISBN 0-89747-278-0]

    Interned in Turkey:

    Flieger Revue Extra 12
    Article: Die türkische Luftwaffe im Zweiten Weltkrieg
    Article by Tuncay Deniz
    FLiEGERREVUE - Magazin für Luft- und Raumfahrt
    2006, March

    Interned in Sweden:

    Tyska Nödlandare 1939-1945 by Bo Widfeldt [Air Historic Research, 2007, ISBN91-975467-4-7]

    Nödlandning. Främmande flyg I Sverige under andra världskriget by Bo Widfeldt and Rolph Wegmann [Air Historic Research, 1998, ISBN 91-971605-6-3]

    Nödlandning Sverige! by Bo Widfeldt and Rolph Wegmann [Air Historic Research, ISBN 91-971605-0-4]

    The Luftwaffe in Sweden 1939-1945 by Bo Widfeldt [Monogram, 1983 ISBN 0-914144-28-6]

    Making For Sweden Part 1- The RAF 1939 to 1945 by Bo Widfeldt and Rolph Wegmann [Air Research Publications, 1997, ISBN 1-871187-33-8]

    Making For Sweden Part 2- The USAAF by Bo Widfeldt and Rolph Wegmann [Air Research Publications, 1998, ISBN 1-871187-37-0]

    Post WW2 fate of Interned aircraft ? - Luftwaffe Experten Message Board
     
  6. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Found this very informative post in my Internet journeys on another discussion site :).


    Interned aircraft – What happened after the war ended?

    The below is information compiled mainly from the sources listed at the end of this posting. Information is by no means complete. More detailed info on aircraft involved can be found in the literature referred to at the end.

    SWITZERLAND

    244 foreign aircraft landed, crash landed or was shot down over Swiss territory in WW2 according to the Swiss AF website. 198 landed.

    American aircraft

    166 American aircraft arrived.
    41 were totally destroyed in crashes.
    39 badly damaged
    86 considered repairable.

    The Swiss Government did not allow Allied aircraft to return before the war with Japan ended.

    Between 27 August and 22 October 1945 totally 72 aircraft were flown to Burtonwood USAAF depot airfield in the UK; 30 B-17s, 41 B-24 and one P-51. Aircraft not considered flyable were scrapped in Switzerland.

    One L-5 Stinson, 42-99186 was used by the Swiss AF marked as ‘A-96’. It remained in Switzerland after the war purchased by Alpar AG and given civil registration HB-TRY.

    The USAAF aircraft flown to Burtonwood in UK were not flown over to the USA, but were all scrapped in the UK.

    British aircraft

    A Mosquito PR IV of the No 1 PRU landed on 24 August 1942 and was later flown and tested by the Swiss. This was the first British as well as Allied aircraft to emergency land in Switzerland. Eleven others followed. For aircraft data, see the website under “Sources” below.

    I found no info on their fate after the war. As the RAF mostly flew night raids over Germany, perhaps not that many succeeded in landing intact in darkness in Switzerland and the wrecks were subsequently scrapped. More info needed.

    German aircraft

    Several were allowed to return to Germany during the war, in particular liaison, training and communications aircraft. It was for example agreed that all Luftwaffe aircraft on Swiss soil up to the date of the French armistice in 1940 was to be returned, including wreckages. Armed aircraft, except for a Do-17 U5+BD from Stab III/ KG 2 landing on 21 April 1940 which was releases after strong pressure from Germa, seem to have been interned in Switzerland .

    Some Luftwaffe aircraft were later purchased for the Swiss armed forces from the Allied Disarmament Control Commission. I have found:

    Bf 108 D W.Nr 5061, CL+CE, Swiss reg A-218
    Bf 108 B W.Nr 1691, L5+AB, Swiss reg A-217
    Fw 44F, W.Nr462, NV+KF, Swiss reg A-95
    Bf 109 F-4Z, W.Nr, 7605, PC+JY, “10”, J-715, taken over 1946
    Bf 109 F-4, W.Nr, 7197, NW+KU, “9” , J-716, taken over 1946

    Bought from Germany in 1944 after landing 19 March 1943 in Switzerland:

    Fi 156 C-3/trop W.Nr 8063, Swiss reg A-97
    Fi 156 C-3/trop W.Nr 1144, Swiss reg A-98

    Bf 110G-4, C9+EN landing on 28 April 1944 was blown up, burnt and destroyed in exchange for a deal on 12 Bf 109 G-6 to be sold to the Swiss. This because the Germans feared that info regarding the brand new radar equipment would fall into the wrong hands.

    Most other German aircraft, not returned to Germany before the end of WW2, seems to have been scrapped in Switzerland. However, as a surprise the Me 262 W.Nr 500071 which landed in Dübendorf on 25 April 1945 turned up in and was handed over to Germany as a museum piece for Deutsche Museum in Munich.

    TURKEY

    Allied and Axis Aircraft landing in Turkey were interned and some which were flyable put into Turkish Air Force use, until becoming unserviceable due to lack of spare parts, or damaged beyond repair. The interned aircraft seem to have been scrapped and not returned to their country of origin or use after WW2. Several aircraft had also crash landed or crashed in Turkey during WW2 and these were probably scrapped rather sooner than later as they could not be used. 80 cases of landings or crashes involving foreign aircraft in Turkey during WW2 are listed in the article I refer to. See below for references.

    SWEDEN

    About 327 foreign aircraft emergency landed in Sweden during WW2.
    140 US
    113 German
    58 British
    16 Others

    In the following RSwAF stands for Royal Swedish Air Force.

    German

    Of the 113 Luftwaffe ac, about 40 German ac were returned to Germany during the war. Particularly during 1940-1942 Sweden was quite lenient towards letting German aircraft return to Germany. As the war developed the attitude towards German aircraft became less friendly or helpful, and several became interned together with their crews. A clear turning point is from February 1943 and onwards when Luftwaffe crews again became interned. This had also been the practice earlier, under the policy in place until November 1940 when the internment camp for Luftwaffe personnel was closed. By this time the fighting in Norway had ceased and fighting in the immediate vicinity of Swedish borders had stopped. About 30 Luftwaffe aircraft were scrapped in Sweden. Most of the scrapped aircraft were processed in 1945-49, but a Ju 88 4N+CH of 1.(F)/22 was scrapped as late as 1954.

    20 were handed over to USSR after the war as the Swedish Government was keen to please the victorious Soviet Union after the war, why aircraft and crew taking off from areas occupied by the Soviets were agreed to be handed over upon Soviet demands. Flyable Luftwaffe aircraft to be handed over to the Soviet Union were transferred to Bromma Airport, Stockholm, for hand over to Soviet personnel. Most aircraft were handed over on 1945-08-27--29 and 1945-11-08. Most, perhaps all were scrapped by the Soviets soon after being returned to Soviet controlled territory. In case of the aircrew, this hand over to the Soviets of course had some tragic consequences as they ended up in the Soviet war prison camp system. In total 2372 German service personnel and 146 from the Baltic States were handed over to the Soviets in December 1945 and January 1946.

    A further 7 Lw aircraft were taken over by the RSwAF

    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 110232 BM+PL 28./FlVerbG2 RSwAF S 14B 3826
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 5503 KR+QX 28./FlVerbG2 RSwAF S 14B 3822
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 1043(?) NL+UU RSwAF S 14B 3821
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 5440 PP+QA RSwAF S 14B 3825
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 1043 BD+VF 28./FlVerbG2 RSwAF S 14B 3823
    Fi 156C-3/Trop W.Nr 5837 DJ+PC RSwAF S 14B 3824

    Do 24 T-3 W.Nr 3343 CM+RY Seenotgr 81, RSwAF designation Tp 24. Bought by RSwAF 1945.

    At least 12 Luftwaffe ac entered the Swedish civil aircraft register:

    Ar96B-1, W.Nr 425262, U+9B, bought 1945 became SE-AOA
    Ar96B-1, W.Nr 4081, CD+DH 119, , bought 1945 became SE-AOB
    Ar96A-5, W.Nr 2350, 6R+BL, bought 1945 became SE-AOD
    Ar96A-5, W.Nr 2351, 6R+UL, bought 1945 became SE-AOE
    Ar96A-5, W.Nr 2346, 6R+LL, bought 1945 became SE-ANT
    Ar196A-3, W.Nr 1006, DH+ZF, bought 1945 and became SE-AOU, later -AWY
    Bf108B-1, W.Nr 2158, L1+CF, bought 1949 became SE-BPZ
    Bü181C-1, 330745, PL+BN 35, bought 1944-09-12 became SE-BFG
    Bü181, W.Nr 502174, VN+NP 44, bought 1949 became SE-BPY
    Bü181, W.Nr 108, CR+YU, bought 1949 became SE-BNK
    Si204D-1, W.Nr 321583, D1+QK, bought 1952 became SE-BPW
    Ju W34, W.Nr 317, TF+NA, bought 1945 became SE-AOC

    A further two were handed over to German controlled territory in Swedish civil registration.

    British

    Out of the flyable British RAF aircraft none returned to the UK as all were scrapped in Sweden

    USA

    88 flyable B-17 and B-24 are to have been maintained in flying condition in WW2 and flown back to the UK, most of them becoming scrap. I found data on 85 of them being returned. Non-flyable aircraft and wrecks were scrapped in Sweden.

    After negotiations via the US Air Attaché to Sweden, Lt.Col. Felix Hardison, nine emergency landed B-17s were taken over in return for early repatriation of 300 interned USAAF aircrew, seven of which were rebuilt to 14 passenger transport configuration by SAAB and used by the Swedish airline ABA. The civil version was named ‘Felix’ after the US Air Attaché but also got individual names after USAAF aircrew:

    B-17G, 42-32076, ‘Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby’, Became SE-BAP (No name), now restored in museum, Dayton, Ohio.
    B-17G, 42-31490 used in rebuild of SE-BAN ‘Ted’
    B-17G, 42-31163 ‘A Good Ship & Happy Ship’, rebuilt SE-BAM ‘Tom’
    B-17G, 42-97115, rebuilt SE-BAO ’Bob’
    B-17G, 42-107067, became SE-BAR
    B-17F, 42-3543, ‘Sack-Time Suzy’ became SE-BAH ‘Sam’
    B-17F, 42-30661, ‘Veni,Vidi, Vici,’ rebuilt SE-BAK ’Jim’
    B-17F, 42-3217, ‘Georgia Rebel’, as spares used in rebuild of B-17 Felix ac.
    B-17F, 42-5827, ‘Lakanuki’, as spares used in rebuild of B-17 Felix ac.

    Shoo, Shoo, Shoo Baby today restored to original bomber configuration:
    [​IMG] ShooShooShoo_Baby_1.jpg ( 240.5K ) Number of downloads: 19

    Picture from Wikipedia web site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ShooShoo.jpg

    The Swedish negotiated to purchase fighters from the USA and as part of the deal four interned aircraft were taken over by the RSwAF:

    P-51 B-5, 43-6365, ‘Z Hub’, became J 26 26001 in RSwAF
    P-51 B-5, 43-6461 ‘Hot Pants’, became J 26 26002 in RSwAF
    P-51 D-5, 44-13345, ‘Mary Ann’, became J 26 26003 in RSwAF
    P-51 D-5, 44-13917 ‘You’ve Had It’, became J 26 26004 in RSwAF

    Others

    Italian (In Luftwaffe markings)
    Macchi 202, MM 9697, ,marked “16”, Wreck returned to Germany 1945-02-02.

    Polish
    RWD, Serial No. 216, used by RSwAF as TP 11 and later SE-AOF civil reg.

    Regarding interned Russian aircraft

    Few interned Russian aircraft found in my sources.

    Turkey.

    In the case of Turkey as “hosts” to interned aircraft, six cases are mentioned in the source I refer to below.

    07.08.1941 “Russian two engine bomber" Zonguldak 3 m political asylum
    03.12.1941 “Russian bomber”, out of fuel Rize 5 men interned
    18.06.1942 “Iljuschin”, destroyed in landing Hasankale Pilot interned
    24.03.1943 “Russian trainer” crashed Kars 2 men killed
    24.09.1944 “Jak-9” Landed intact Saray Pilot interned
    24.09.1944 “Jak-7” Landed intact, two-seater Babaeski Crew interned

    No further info on fate after the war. High probability they were scrapped.

    Switzerland

    I have seen only one reference to Soviet aircraft in Switzerland.

    A Yak-9 with a defecting pilot landed shortly after the war ended. The pilot was handed over to the Soviets.

    Sweden

    No Soviet aircraft was interned in Sweden during WW2.

    SOURCES:

    Info on aircraft interned in Switzerland:
    http://www.airwarweb.net/internedstart.php

    Interned in Switzerland:

    Deutsche Luftwaffe über der Schweiz 1939-1945 by Karl Ries [Verlag Dieter Hoffmann, Mainz, 1978, ISBN 3-87341-022-2]

    Strangers in a Strange Land Vol.II Escape to Neutrality by Hans-Heiri Stapfer and Gino Künzle [Squadron/signal publications, 1992, ISBN 0-89747-278-0]

    Interned in Turkey:

    Flieger Revue Extra 12
    Article: Die türkische Luftwaffe im Zweiten Weltkrieg
    Article by Tuncay Deniz
    FLiEGERREVUE - Magazin für Luft- und Raumfahrt
    2006, March

    Interned in Sweden:

    Tyska Nödlandare 1939-1945 by Bo Widfeldt [Air Historic Research, 2007, ISBN91-975467-4-7]

    Nödlandning. Främmande flyg I Sverige under andra världskriget by Bo Widfeldt and Rolph Wegmann [Air Historic Research, 1998, ISBN 91-971605-6-3]

    Nödlandning Sverige! by Bo Widfeldt and Rolph Wegmann [Air Historic Research, ISBN 91-971605-0-4]

    The Luftwaffe in Sweden 1939-1945 by Bo Widfeldt [Monogram, 1983 ISBN 0-914144-28-6]

    Making For Sweden Part 1- The RAF 1939 to 1945 by Bo Widfeldt and Rolph Wegmann [Air Research Publications, 1997, ISBN 1-871187-33-8]

    Making For Sweden Part 2- The USAAF by Bo Widfeldt and Rolph Wegmann [Air Research Publications, 1998, ISBN 1-871187-37-0]

    Post WW2 fate of Interned aircraft ? - Luftwaffe Experten Message Board
     
    urqh likes this.
  7. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    "In case of the aircrew, this hand over to the Soviets of course had some tragic consequences as they ended up in the Soviet war prison camp system. In total 2372 German service personnel and 146 from the Baltic States were handed over to the Soviets in December 1945 and January 1946."

    Interesting that a "Neutral" would do this. You would have thought that they would have been returned to thier country od origin.
     
  8. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    IIRC the Swiss and other Neutrals let them return to thier countries of origin. Was Sweden the only one to do this?
     
  9. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    "A Yak-9 with a defecting pilot landed shortly after the war ended. The pilot was handed over to the Soviets."

    Now perhaps I can see this happening AFTER the war. But Im surprised that they did. Soviet pressure perhaps?
     
  10. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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  11. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    I guess that not until the Geneva Convention of 1949 was it stated that they should be returned to thier countries of origins.
     
  12. Kmalkoc

    Kmalkoc Member

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    Dear Sirs,
    I am very very new here. While checking and reading all topics especially about Turkey & II WW, I came across this interesting thread. When I read it, I saw those notes about interned Russian aircrafts by Turkey. I would like to contribute some information about this thread.

    As is known, on 1 August 1943 U.S. Eight & Ninth Air Forces conducted Operation Tidal Wave to Polesti Oil Refineries in Romania.

    After this first air raid, four B-24 Liberators; second air raid (June 12, 1942), seven B-24s; and more one B-24 Liberator landed (August 1, 1943) in Turkey and be interned. Turkey never gave back these aircrafts. Five of eleven landed B-24s repaired and used in TUAF between 1942 and 1948.

    All images are in this link. (Sorry can't add any photo)
    CONVAIR B-24D LIBERATOR

    After bombing the target, one of these aircrafts (Hadley's Harem), was crippled by a German fighter, tried to fly to the British Base at Cyprus but ended up ditching near Antalya. The front section was salvaged in 1995 and partly restored. More information is http://http://www.rmk-museum.org.tr/english/exhibit/aviation.html
     
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  13. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Thanks for the additional info. Its nice to get some more when there is not a whole lot out there.
     
  14. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Would you happen to have anymore information or photos on what color schemes and markings they carried?
     
  15. Kmalkoc

    Kmalkoc Member

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  16. Kmalkoc

    Kmalkoc Member

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    Initially, All Liberators were in sand color, later all were painted into dark green. All were deployed to 1st Flight regiment - ESKISEHIR/TURKEY. But due to lacking of supplies spare parts and maintanence standarts, all were scraped at the end of 1947.
    Besides, I am still trying translate some memories of these planes's Turkish flight crew into English. Soon, I would to share with all.
    By the way, as far as I know and my knowladge, all Russian Aircrafts that had been interned by Turkey were heavly damaged due to emergency landings because of lacking fuel and not more chance to be flown again. So, all were never kept for a museum demonstration at that time, just sent to be scarped. I have asked their consequence for some friends who were in TUAF History Branch. But I don't think they will find any information about interned Russian A/C's. Could it be possible to say the information source? may be, I will search and find more information about interned Russian A/C's in the different source.
     
  17. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Thanks again. A couple of the links above didn't work for me . They said they weren't available :(.
     
  18. Halldin

    Halldin Member

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  19. Kmalkoc

    Kmalkoc Member

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    That memory has taken from "Unforgetables Memories, TUAF, Vol.1, 1989"

    (Ret.) Brigadier Gn. Hikmet SÜER – TUAF

    “While they were returning to their Main Air Bases, heavily damaged 10-12 Liberators made forced landings on Turkey. Most of them had heavy damaged –three engines stopped, body and wings were riddled, some planes’ first pilots were killed, second ones were injured etc.- Some of these planes were less damaged than the others. These ones could make forced landing on smoothness areas. But most of these planes were unserviceable again.
    After these incidents by permission of USA, being flown four B-24’s had taken to 1st Air Base – ESKISEHIR by Turkish Pilot Team. Team leader was Major Enver AKOGLU who was a hero in TUAF.
    It was established a Flight Wing by four B-24s. Wing Commander was Capt. Hikmet TUGAY. Wing staff were 1st Lt. Nusret ŞENKON, 1st Lt. Ahmet Tuna, 1st Lt. Hikmet SÜER, 1st Lt. Sadi OKTAY, 1st Lt. İsmail KUŞU, 1st Lt. Halit ELGİN.
    All useable materials and equipments etc. were taken from heavily damaged planes and transferred to this new B-24 Liberator Wing as spare supplies.
    All USAF crew were interned. Later, a crew, consisted of 1st pilot, 2nd pilot, bombing and communication specialists, was designated from interned USAF flight crews. According to an agreement between USA and Turkey, this crew begun to work with Turkish flight crew in this new B-24 wing. This USAF crew begun to teach Turkish pilots B-24 and gave double command flight training TUAF pilots.

    Finally, this B-24 wing had been in TUAF for three years. But because of USA was in WW II, all necessary supplies couldn’t be provided on time and for required quantities. Later, supply conditions never changed, and flights of this wing were hindered. And all B-24 flights were stopped and planes were scrapped."
    (Sorry for some translation mistakes)
     
  20. Kmalkoc

    Kmalkoc Member

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    TUAF B-24s

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