What is it with people wanting to serve in the Schutzstaffel?

Read up on the Gestapo,

The Geheime Staatspolizei (Gestapo)
and Sicherheitsdienst (SD)
Nuremberg Charges​

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"The GESTAPO, through its great power of arrest and confinement to concentration camps without recourse to law, was the principal means for eliminating enemies of the Nazi regime. Diels, the former Deputy Chief of the GESTAPO under Goering, declared: "

"* * * From (1934) on the GESTAPO is responsible for, all deprivations of freedom and breaches of law and killings in the political field which took place without court verdict. Of primary importance among these was the shooting of numerous persons who had been committed to jails by the courts and then shot supposedly because of resistance. Many such cases were at that time published in the papers. For people guilty of immorality such illegal shootings became the rule. As for deprivation of freedom, there was no legal reason any more for protective custody orders after 1934, which had still been the case before that date, since from 1934 on the power of the totalitarian state was so stabilized that the arrest of a person for his own protection was only an excuse for arbitrary arrest--without court verdict and without legal measures for him. The terroristic measures, which. led to the development of the pureforce system and punished to an increasing degree each critical remark and each impulse of freedom with the concentration camp, took on more and more arbitrary and cruel forms. The GESTAPO became the symbol of the regime of force." (2460-PS) "
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Gestapo and SD Nuremberg Charges, Part 1​

 

J.A., this is the sad thing about us. We tend to forget very quickly. I bet many of them if hey were asked to torture or kill someone would get sick, throw up wouldn't be able to do so, etc... As they should. That's why I think reenactors of SS groups should show everything in excrutiating detail. When parents start
complaining about the brutality of reinactments, we're on the right track. I bet the number of SS fan boys would be reduced drastically.


Cheers...

 

Jeez... what is it with the SS round here?

The SS was not a military organisation but a political one. As such it is divorced fron the Waffen-SS.

Also the SS is NOT the Nazi Party. Party membership was not a requirement to admitance.

Also try to remember that the Wehrmacht was as much responsible for war crimes and genocide as was the Waffen-SS.

And dont forget... There is the SS and there is the Waffen-SS... Try to distinguish between the two as it helps.

 

Here here! Sorry, I had to let my country boy side out for a tick.

Things are getting pretty mean in here.

 

thank you for the very few of you who have understood my point. -.- and also thank you, for whoever pointed this out, that the civil war was not all about slavery. i hate the idea of slavery, but im still proud of my ancestors, who served as confederates. The north at the time had been imposing taxes and ridicoulous laws, etc against us. as a matter of fact after the civil war, the freed slaves went up to the north....and they were refused of any jobs, homes, and familys...most of them came back into the south and gladly worked for their old masters. and for the record, i also do not feel olbigued to, oh what was it? "blindly pledge my alligance to the axis because im from germany, a country that was the backbone of the axis."and as it seems everytime i post you people seem to find something wrong in my post, ill start pointing out the things you could possiblyfind wrong in it.

1st: No, i would not be a confederate in the civil war.
2nd: No, im not proud of the fact my ancestors stood for slavery
3rd: Undoubtly, you'll start spouting laws at the time, make me look bad, and then say: "Do these look like ridicoulous laws to you?"

 

For me its not just the subject of the SS.Waffen SS or even the Gestapo. Its why choose to be in the armed forces of the enemy of your own country that was bent on killing your own countrymen and to support a evil regime and an obvious madman?

 

Understood and agree. Knowing what we know now, how can anyone say that they would still join such an organization. Especially the seedy side.

BTW, many good points made here fellas. Glad to be part of such an intelligent band of rogues....................just don't let Kommando or the likes of him get a wind of it or else there be some kind of book burning.

 

At least the one self avowed Nazi that was on this site(No longer with us now ) had stated he had agreed with the racial and political policies of the Nazis along with the murder and other atrocities they were known to have commited. Even with the killing of captured enemy soldiers and POWs.

 

there was a self avowed nazi?

 

^ YES most SS soldiers joined out of Free will, opposed to many of the Wermacht who where drafted.

You claimed you are proud of your ancestors and are anti-Fascist and would join the Military for protecting your nation, fair enough. However the Gestapo where the political secret police who murdered anyone who opposed the Nazi regime in Germany from 1933-1945. They where not common soldiers fighting merely for their nation. The people serving in that branch where staunchly pro-Nazi Fascists and had millions of gallons of blood on their hands, many civilian. There is a big difference there.

 

"About four weeks before the attack on Russia, special task forces of the SIPO and SD, called Einsatzgruppen or Special Task Groups, were formed on order of Himmler for the purpose of following the German armies into Russia, combatting partisans and members of resistance groups and exterminating the Jews and Communist leaders. In the beginning four Einsatz Groups were formed. Einsatz Group A, operating in the Baltic States, was placed under the command of Stahlecker, former Inspector of the SIPO and SD. Einsatz Group B, operating toward Moscow, was placed under the command of Nebe, the Chief of Amt V (KRIPO) of the RSHA. Einsatz Group C, operating toward Kiev, was placed under the command of Rasch and later of Thomas, former Chief of the SIPO and SD in Paris. Einsatz Group D, operating in the south of Russia, was placed under the command of Ohlendorf, the Chief of Amt III (SD) of the RSHA.
The Einsatz Groups were officered by personnel of the GESTAPO, the SD and the KRIPO. The men were drawn from the Order Police and the Waffen SS. The groups had complements of 400 to 500 men, and had their own vehicles and equipment. By agreement with the OKW and OKH, the Einsatzkommandos were attached to certain Army corps or divisions. The Army assigned the area in which the Einsatzkommandos were to operate, but all operational directives and orders for the carrying out of executions were given through the RSHA in Berlin. Regular courier service and radio communications existed between the Einsatz Groups and the RSHA. The affidavit of Ohlendorf, Chief of the SD, who led Einsatz Group D, reads in part as follows:

"When the German Army invaded Russia, I was leader of Einsatzgruppe D in the southern sector, and in the course of the year during which I was leader of the Einsatzgruppe D, it liquidated approximately 90,000 men, women and children. The majority of those liquidated were Jews, but there were also among them some Communist functionaries.

"In the execution of this extermination program the Einsatzgruppen were subdivided into Einsatzkommandos, and the Einsatzkommandos into still smaller units, the socalled Sonderkommando and Teilkommandos. Usually the smaller units were led by a member of the SD, the GESTAPO or the KRIPO. The unit selected for this task would enter a village or city and order the prominent Jewish citizens to call together all Jews for the purpose of resettlement. They were asked to hand over their personal belongings to the leaders of the unit, and shortly before the execution, to surrender their outer clothing. The men, women and children were led to a place of execution which usually was located beside a deepened anti-tank ditch. Then they were shot, kneeling or standing, and the corpses were thrown into the ditch. I never permitted the l shooting by individuals in Group D, but ordered that several of the men should shoot at the same time in order to avoid direct personal responsibility. The leaders of the unit, or especially designated persons, however, had to fire the last shot against those victims who were not dead immediately. I learned from conversations with other group leaders that some of them asked the victims to lie down flat on the ground to be shot through the neck. I did not approve of these methods." (2620-PS)

Gestapo and SD Nuremberg Charges, Part 3
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If you are going to lecture others get your facts correct.

Not all Waffen-SS were volunteers as you like to think. Many were forced into it and virtually drafted.

Your comments suggest as much naivety as the others by suggesting the Wehrmacht were 'good' as they were conscripted. Many volunteered to serve in the Heer. At the start of the war all Fallschirmjager were volunteers. The majority of Gebirgsjager were volunteers in the early war period.

Also the Wehrmacht as much wrapped up in war crimes and Nazi racial policy as was the Waffen-SS.

Also try and use the term Waffen-SS when referring to combat troops. It helps to show the difference between the military and political wings of the formation

 

Yes, Kommando, but he was shown the door a few days ago.

 

why was he showned the door?



Cheers...

 

I can't defend myself, in the heat off the moment I made a partially false claim, I apologize. I don't necessarily think the Wermacht where ''good'' just they had a bit of a cleaner war record.

 

I also thought of the Civil War when I read the first post. I'm from New Jersey, but when I was about 13 I went to Gettysburg with the Boy Scouts and became something of a Southern sympathizer. I liked how they were always outnumbered, how they had interesting commanders, even the color of their uniforms and design of their bullets. I read a bunch of books about things like the Orphan Brigade how to Be Your Own General and basically just thought they were neat. In time I outgrew it.

Anyway I'm as much a Nazi-hater as anyone, but I wouldn't freak out just because some kid admires how the SS had cool uniforms or fought against long odds.

 

Because that was the Moderators decided, after conferring with .

 

Wehrmacht is ALL the German armed Forces...

The Heer, luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine all bear guilt for war crimes.

Certainly the Heer was heavily involved in the Holocaust as much as any frontline Waffen-SS unit and they happily complied with orders concerning the execution of Soviet Commissars.

i get really tired of people lumping all the blame onto the Waffen-SS and carrying on with this post-war/Cold war tripe that the rest of the German troops behaved well. They didnt. They too have blood on their hands but for political reasons in the NATO enviroment it was best to ignore it and leave the blame with the Waffen-SS.

I also get fed up with the whole 'SS' reference. The Waffen-SS, was a different beast to the SS political wing, those in black who organised the butchery. While there was some crossover of personnel, it was not as widespread as believed. Simiarily the SD was again a different kettle of fish.

Blaming a primarily military organisation such as the Waffen-SS for all the crimes is just plain naive. They certainly committed their share of horrific acts but they were not the only ones.

What about the policemen who joined the Einsatzgruppen? what about the train drivers who rode the trains to the death camps? what about the factory owners who worked people to death?

The Third Reich is the evil regime. To concentrate blame on one part is to shy away from how truly organised and horrific the regime was. It was a regime organised to perpetrate genocide on a massive scale and all contributed to that regardless of their branch or arm of service.

i imagine most who say they want to serve in the Waffen-Ss know little of what war is really like or what those units endured and did. They are attracted by the glamour and mystique of them. I see no difference between wanting to serve in the Heer in a fantasy and to serving in the Waffen-SS as all of this is pointless fantasy day-dreaming.

Im sure if most of us had been borm in Germany at that time many of us would have served in the Waffen-SS. I have no doubt I would probally have volunteered for it had I been born in Germany in 1920. The appeal lay in the sense of elite status and the bonds of comradeship that the Waffen-SS did have and which in certain cases directly led to their crimes. Thankfully I wasnt born in that time. I have got to see the war with hindsight and history, but I spend alot of time trying to understand those dark days and what it was like. I was lucky to have many around me who served, including my Grandfathers, one of whom was of German descent, but who served in the BEF. he instilled in me the concept that a soldier is a soldier regardless of nation or ideals. He does his job as he is told to do and to the best of his ability for those friends around them. He held no grudge against the Germans, even thosugh his injuries left him in a wheelchair and he would often talk of how he almost admire the Waffen-SS and the Germans for their fighting ability and their bravery. He never forgot the horrors he saw but he also knew that there were two sides to every story and he too had committed what would now be called war crimes.

Pardon my rant and ramble...

 

Well, I suppose it's the same reason why people still put confederate flag stickers on the pick-up's here in the U.S. People read something about it or see a movie, and they often remember only the glamorous aspect of it. It's sort of like my first really serious girl friend I had in High School before she went back to Moscow. I just seem top remember all of the great things about her.

Just a thought,

Bill

 

If the civil war was fought more or less on the slave issue then why after the defeat of the South does Mississippi still fly the Stars and Bars on her state flag.

If we were conclude that we condemn anyone that wants to serve in the Waffen SS a Nazi then i will state here and now that Mississippi still advocates slavery by displaying that offensive flag of the Stars and Bars.

Any takers.

v.R