Cowardly american DOGS!

Good for you... You carry on.

But can you explain to me the difference between a soldier in the Waffen-SS and one in the Heer?

Both served the same Nazi master. Im sorry but I dislike any trirade against any servicemen who felt they were fighting for their cause regardless on the political or miltary regime they serve.

I feel any man who puts himself in combat deserves some respect regardless of his nation, which is a choice he cannot change.

I also dislike your 'only good SS man is a dead one' attitude. I dont reall want to bother discussing it but as one who has met Waffen-SS veterans and had distant family serve in the formation, I find it a little tasteless... As I do the Nazi fanboys. Its over the top and frankly, there is no need for it.

As for calling foreign volunteers to the Waffen-SS traitors, I guess that depends on your point of view, but to themselves they were certainly not anything of the sort (though I exclude the British Frei korps from this as they were just a bunch of petty criminals looking for a way out of the POW camps and generally dodgy chaps at heart). Most believed they were doing the right thing.

I guess you would have wanted to shoot all the members of the American Nazi Party too...

Im sorry but I find your comments somewhat tasteless and disrespectful, something I would not have expected from one who has served in the armed forces.

 

Red ya know ya irk me but I respect your point of view and your a damm fine debator.. And yes I would have shot members of the american nazi party providing they did any acts of sabotage....OR anything subversive to the War effort... ya toss on a uniform and take up arms against your homeland of your OWN free will.. your a man without a country or Honor... Im not a tactful man... im not politically correct.. I call things as i see them and I see thigns very black and white... i personally despiese the waffen ss... I have an uncle who was killed in ww2 and another uncle who lost his leg fighting joachim pipers boys in bastogne. on another hand Ill be the first to admit the nazis and The SS and wehrmacht facinate me, I just Read the Black edelweiss.. and Sepp allerbergers biography and i gotta admit I admire Otto skorzeny's commando operations...Theyre taictics fascinate me.. One thing ill say for the SS men unlike the taliban and Al queda is they Fought LIKE MEN... they werent cowards who hid, they stood up and fought HARD... but i still despiese theyre Idealogy and the fact they MURDERED thousands of innocent people in cold blood.. I also feel If you glorify any of them the younger members will start thinking HEY they werent so bad... WHY is it the NAZIS are held in such respect and regard and Not the japanese.. THEy too were TOUGH... but they also were barbaric bastards.. Guess theyre uniforms werent as pretty and they didnt look just like Most europeans And why is it you constanly think your intellectually superior to other members..... You sir are Articulate as hell.. IM not... Im not paid to be... IM a warfighter... IM not a product of west point or sandhurst... I came Up thru the ranks... I didnt have political connections or money... I EARNED it the hard way... which is why i Talk vulger as hell at times... Id love for you to come to one of the ROTC classes i teach... youd be shocked.... I am not ttraining officers and gentleman IM training young people to KIll and take care of theyre soldiers. I could give a damm if they can give a pretty speech or impress the big brass with theyre golf game. I wan them TO KILL the bad guys... and i want them to bring all theyre people home safe,, I keep things simple... and the NAZIS and SS in MY mind are simply EVIL, and EVIL bastards should be killed

 

And Any person who willingly HARMS theyre country... ITS men in uniform or its civilians is a piece of trash...

 

Im glad I aint lost my knack for winding people up Mortman...

I understand your point of view, and I understand the way you express it. It may not be to my liking but that is your right to express it how you want. I dont expect you to change and I dont think you expect me to not argue a point!

I dont think you are any less intelligent than anyone else... In fact I would say you deserve some amount of credit for speaking from the heart... a trait not found in many these days. I would also imagine your training classes would be excellent in providing a real grounding in the lessons of war at the sharp end... I would love to attend one, though sadly the Atlantic ocean precludes me from doing so! Though i doubt I would be shocked much... Having spent time with the British Paras, little shocks me these days!

I honestly cant tell you why people praise and are in awe of the Germans and the Waffen-SS. In the last 20 years the amount of 'coffee' table books published on them has grown and as it has, so has the 'Knights of Hitler' image. Where 30 years ago people had your opinion of the SS and Nazi's (which is no bad one to have) now a days, thanks to populist books and poorly made TV shows, people seem to think that they were all supermen and did hardly anything wrong. People have become obsessed with the potted history and are blinded by the 'cool' uniforms and tanks and fail to see/learn of the real story behind the Waffen-SS... I know... I spent several years trying to teach people differently and try my hardest to do it unbiasedly. Not an easy thing with the SS and the Nazi's. The current wave of 'Nazi fanboys' are just ill informed fools in my opinion.

I think we both agree their ideology was evil as was the regime... But not every Waffen-SS man was a mass murderer. Sadly history is never that black and white... Its varying shades of grey. My grandfather served in the British Army from 39 till seriously wounded in 1944. He went through Dunkirk and various other places of hell before finally being seriously wounded in France in '44. His wounds were tended to by a Waffen-SS soldier and he was handed back to the british during a period of calm on the front as his wounds were quite serious. He always maintained that the Waffen-SS soldier saved his life and he developed a keen respect for them despite their atrocious war record. He always impressed on me to have a degree of respect for any soldier regardless of his nation or ideology. He also made sure I knew that it wasnt just the German who committed crimes in war... Though they certainly had the most. He himself was involved in several acts that haunted him till the day he died.

My point (and apologies for rambling off topic) is that any man who fights in combat deserves respect. Whether its in the trenches of WW1, the fields of Normandy or modern day Iraq, all who put themselves in the firing line for their comrades deserve some modicum of respect and that applies equally to all in my opinion. I have no love of Nazism but I can respect those who fought as I do those of any nation.

By the same token I can respect those fighting in Iraq (although I do not agree with the war there) and Afghanistan (a war I do think is worthwhile and should be the main focus of efforts) and to me all soldiers deserve that respect... They do after all, do something most people never want to do and never hope to do.

So I hope that we can continue to argue Mortman, and I hope you realise I do it from a position of 'Devils Advocate' and hold no grudge to you or your country... But I know I do come over a little condescending... My wife tells me that all the time!

 

I guess you don't like Jane Fonda either ?

 

ya know red you got some class...I gotta admit you got class

 

Hanoi Jane... Nah she is a scumbag.. be a damm good day when she dies.... Viet nam vets will be lining up to piss on her grave

 

i got No respect for the taliban or al queda. dont get me started on them

 

I will take that as a compliment... One of the more polite things I have been told.

 

Well thats one thing we can agree on. Though you gotta say they can be tough little feckers. Couple of mates of mine in Afghanistan have told me that the Taliban are quite capable of decent fighting... Sometimes.

As for Al Queda, well I aint ever had much love for terrorist organisations... They are scum, much like the PIRA.

 

MIKE YOU WILL HAVE NO ARGUMENT FROM ANY MEMBER ON HERE IF YOU DO FEEL FREE TO LOCK AND LOAD

 

Well Mike, I agree with you. I too feel and have said it before, that all those who turn thier back on America deserve to die a traitors death. Same for any other country you may originate from. You should not turn your back on your country no matter what. I actually find it ashame that most of them are not tried for treason. Those American Taliban people we have caught in Afghanistan all stood trail for conspiaricy to commit murder against citizens of the US. I mean they are fighting against us. To me that qualifys a traitor, and a traitor can only recieve one penalty. Death!

 

LOl jason ill never make it past the rank of lt Colonel... I got a big mouth... but i also will speak my mind... and when im wrong I admit it.... but i dont back down easily

 

Patton made general and look and some of the things he said

 

LOL umm I posted his speech... the Days of mavericks Like georgie patton are gone... Now officers arnet leaders of Men.. were WAR managers..

 

Yeah i saw your post on old blood un guts speech, war managers whatever next i love my rifle oh sorry i love my laptop...........

 

Back to the original subject at hand. What about the former Soviets who fought with the Germans like the Hiwis and Cossaks or members of the Vaslov Army who though fighting along with the Germans were fighting to liberate thier people? Or Germans of the Sedylitz army who fought against Hitler?

 

theyre sellouts too LOL

 

OK OK OK,... Enough i see your point.... Still AMERICAN nazis are vermin... As are the Frei corps punks

 

People ought to be smart enough to see....double agents are always initially coveted during recruitment, then used recklessly, dangerously, constantly (until their end), and are viewed as expendable "trash" by all sides.

Looking for an up-side here.

When it's time to go "Home", where do these people go ?