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Worst General in WW2

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Kai-Petri, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. Mortman2004

    Mortman2004 Dishonorably Discharged

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    but of course its an opinion thread and of course youlll always think the germens were the best and brightest,,,
     
  2. TheRedBaron

    TheRedBaron Ace

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    Rommel was just a good divisional commander.

    He was not a good army commander. He had no concept of logistics or supply and failed to be able to remain in a position from where he could command effectively.

    His CoS, Kriebel, called him, 'difficult, dangerous and frustating as an army commander and more suited to leading from the front. He had no concept of supplying an army.'

    Oh... that and he lost.

    Rommel is just the person all the 'Good German' theorists cling to in trying to see something positive about the Third Reich. He was an able divisional commander but average at best in army command.

    He was also a good little Nazi... Head of Hitler's bodyguard in Poland and he knew how to work the propaganda system to his own advantage... That propaganda is still churned out today.
     
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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  4. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    See now Market Garden could have worked if he had been allowed to launch the operation immediatly rather than being held back. Apart from that though, whether the OP failed or not is fairly up for debate, it took a lot of ground and some key bridges.

    My money goes on Goering, not fit to captain a tiddlywinks team!
     
  5. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    No, it doesn't because the objective truth is that you can't answer my question factually and still claim the British accomplished anything between May, 1942 and January, 1945, in Burma. That's not bad generalship or cowardice, just inactivity. And that was because Churchill and his Chiefs of Staff had no intention of fighting the Japanese while they still were powerful. Sorry your dad was there, but that doesn't change the facts. Stilwell was a better general than any other in the whole damned CBI and he proved it when he cleaned the Japanese out of northern Burma with a handful of American misfits and three Chinese divisions, something Slim, Mountbatten and all those other wonderful British generals kept telling Churchill it was impossible to do. I don't give a rat's ass if Stilwell's men hated him, he wasn't there to win any popularity contests, he was there to do a job which he did.

    And no I don't hate the Brits, nor am I related to Stilwell, I give credit where credit is due and let the chips fall where they may. Since it's obvious you'd rather let emotion prevail rather than discussing the facts, there's no point in debating the matter further with you. When you grow up and are ready to relate some history, I'll be happy to discuss factual matters with you.
     
  6. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    Would it be obtuse of me to point out that whilst the British fought a defensive war in that theatre (largely due to the Europe First doctrine agreed with the US), we had been at war for almost 3 years at that point and had been concentrating on defending our homeland. Seems fair to me.
     
  7. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    Maybe so, but unless you have some facts that counter my contentions, I really don't give a flying f*** what you think. C'mon Red Baron cite some sources that say I'm wrong, or BUTT OUT.
     
  8. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    Why. because I insist on facts to support arguments? Sure the man is entitled to his opinions, but I am too. And I, at least, supported my opinions with factual data. All the guy has to do to prove me wrong is cite some sources that counter my assertions; that's not too much to ask, this is after all, a history forum which implies that opinions should be backed up by events which actually took place.

    And BTW, WTID45 isn't the only guy who had parents who fought the Japanese. Both of mine were in the USN and my father was there from Pearl Harbor to Okinawa, so don't give me that garbage that he has a right to be emotional.

    So Mortman, if you don't like my opinion, cite some authorities that say different, otherwise, you can shove it.
     
  9. german mauser k98k man

    german mauser k98k man Member

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    im gonna unsubcribe to this thread before it gets outa hand.
     
  10. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Gentlemen, Gentlemen, Gentlemen.

    I've not doled out any cooler time in the past few weeks. Please do not make do it today.

    Discuss with civility or do not discuss at all.

    Condescension and name calling are not acceptable.

    Also, please remember that all caps is the same as yelling in the forum. Exercise discretion when using them.

    Bear in mind that no general was perfect, they all made mistakes at one point or another. Generals revered by one nation or the other must have more redeeming qualities than bad or else they would not have enjoyed the acclaim they received. The various nations mounted operations as their economies and manpower allowed them to.

    The fact remains that we needed each other then as we need each other now and I am grateful for the friendship shared between the Allies then and now.
     
  11. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    Not at all. From the British point of view, it made little sense to get involved in an offensive to recapture an area (Burma) that was only going to help the Chinese and Americans. The only real criticism I have of Churchill and the British Chiefs of Staff was that the strung Roosevelt and the US JCS along by promising offensives with no real intention of carrying out the promises. But even that is understandable since the British were trying to carry out as much of their global strategy as possible with as little friction with the US as possible. It would be naive to think that both Britain and the US had the same interests in the CBI when they obviously didn't.
     
  12. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Before post anything else here, see my post #50 on page two of this thread.
     
  13. wtid45

    wtid45 Ace

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    I have thought a while before making this reply but let us start with some FACTS! 1942 15th January japanese 15th army invades Burma, 15th february Singapore surrenders, 23rd feb Sittang bridge blown 30th april British withdraw beyond the irrawaddy river,10 may battle at Shwegyin, British pull back acrossthe chindwin into india 21 september first Arakan campaign begins 1943 14 feb wingate's first chindit expedition crosses the Chindwin river into Burma(it is easy to forget the depths to which morale in British and Indian units had sunk after the disastrous first Arakan campaign following so soon after the retreat from Burma.Wingate's exploits played a major part in restoring morale and spreading the message that the japanese were not invincible) 5th april Lieutenant general William Slim's 15th corps takes command of Arakan campaign,18 april Chindits cross the Irrawaddy river 25 august Lord Louis Mountbatten, appointed supreme allied commander south asia slim, appointed GOC 14th army 30 november second Arakan OFFENSIVE begins,1944 5 feb Wingate's second Chindit expedition begins with Brigadier Fergussons 16th brigade starting the long march towards indaw from the ledo road, 13-25 feb battle of the admin box in the Arakan. BRITISH clear the ngakyedauk pass, 1 march Fergussons 16th brigade cross the chindwin river, 5 march Calvert's 77th brigade flon into broadway 29 march siege of IMPHAL begins,2 april BRITISH 2nd divison breaks through to defenders of KOHIMA, 4 april japanese assault on KOHIMA begins,3 may key ground overlooking Maungdaw-Buthidaung road taken by 15 corps, 16 may last japanese troops cleared from KOHIMA ridge(6 june d-day ALLIED troops land in normandy in the previous five years BRITISH troops had been or were fighting in france, belgium, norway, north africa, sicily and italy, as well as our royal navy in the med and atlantic oh and the BRITISH people including my dear old mum ( I WONT BE EMOTIONAL HERE MUM IS ALIVE AND WELL AND NO WORSE FOR THE BLITZ IN FACT SHE WAS 73 ON THE 8TH MAY:))were suffering bombs doodlebugs and other such annoying events.Not forgetting the battle of britain good old RAF if i missed anything im very sorry) 26 june Calvert's 77th brigade capture mogaung we all remember that one because STIWELL'S STAFF TOLD HIM THE CHINESE CAPTURED IT BECAUSE THE LIMEYS ARE TO BUSY DRINKING TEA WOT WOT OLD CHAP.17 september operation market garden ARNHEM now dad would of been there with 11 PARACHUTE BATTALION GO AIRBORNE! but he had a little accident with his chute so when he got better they sent him to burma for a rest:rolleyes: i know montys cock up and all that but the paras put on a good show you yanks did alright to i think this time you said the guards were drinking tea.2 december 14th army crosses the chindwin.now I do belive we now what happended next BRITISH go on to capture Mandalay and Rangoon etc. ALL THE ABOVE ACHEIVED BY THE UNIMPRESSIVE FIELD MARSHAL THE VISCOUNT SLIM OF YARRALUMA AND BISHIPTON KG,GCB GCMG,GCVO, GBE,DSO,MC.So in conclusion if what has been previously said was accurate i would of wrote 42 british get kicked out of burma 45 british come back the end. THE SECOND WORLD WAR LASTED 6 YEARS AND DURING THE COURSE OF THAT WAR THE BRITISH NEEDED THE HELP OF MANY NATIONS AS THEY DID US AND JUST AS THEY ALL CO-OPERATED THEN LET US ALL TRY TO DO THE SAME NOW:)
     
  14. Mortman2004

    Mortman2004 Dishonorably Discharged

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    Dont forget Merills Mauraders LOL
     
  15. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    A little difficult to follow your post, but let's see if I understand the "facts" you are asserting. I'll try to recapitulate the chronology you have presented to make sure I have it right;

    1942

    January-May

    British forces in Burma suffer a series of military defeats at the hands of the Japanese and retreat westward into India where they set up a defensive line.

    March


    Lt. General (acting) Slim given command of 1st. Burma Corps and arrives in Burma

    April

    General Stilwell arrives in Burma just n time to retreat with the British forces.

    December 21

    First Arakan offensive is launched by the British Eastern Army under the command of General Irwin.

    1943

    February 18


    Operation Longcloth begins with about 3,000 Chindits under Orde Wingate infiltrating into Japanese occupied Burma. Minor results are achieved (a Japanese supply line is cut for about two weeks), only about 2,100 of the Chindits return and only 600 are fit for further service. Wingate's report is highly optimistic and the British highly propagandize the exploit. British morale is raised as a result.

    April


    The First Arakan offensive ends in disaster for the British and General Irwin is relieved of command.

    August

    Allies create South East Asia Command (SEAC) theater commander is Lord Louis Mountbatten. British 14th. Army command goes to General Slim. The major effort is to be by American-trained Chinese troops under General Joseph Stilwell, to cover the construction of the Ledo Road in northern Burma. Wingate controversially gains approval for an expanded Chindit force, which was tasked with assisting Stilwell by disrupting the Japanese lines of supply to the northern front. Chiang Kai-shek had also agreed reluctantly to mount an offensive from the Yunnan.

    October

    General Stilwell launches his northern Burma offensive with three Chinese divisions which will eventually link up the Ledo Road with the Old Burma Road allowing the delivery of supplies by ground into China.

    1944

    February 5


    Operation Thursday (second Chindit expedition) is launched with the aim of helping Stilwell's offensive in northern Burma. The operation is supported by USAAF aircraft and achieves some success, but also fails to capture Indaw as ordered.

    March 6

    A planned British offensive (Second Arakan Offensive) is derailed by the Japanese launching Operation U-Go, an invasion of India. Operation U-Go is finally stopped after Japanese Defeats at Imphal and Kohima in April and June.

    March 24

    Wingate is killed in a plane crash.

    May 17

    Command of the Chindits passes to General Stilwell.

    December

    In Arakan, British XV Corps resumes its advance on Akyab Island for the third year in succession. This time the Japanese are far weaker, and retreated before the steady British advance.

    December 31

    The Japanese evacuate Akyab Island and it is occupied by XV Corps without resistance two days later.

    1945

    January 12

    British XV Corps launches amphibious attacks on Burmese Coast to cut off retreating Japanese troops.

    March 1


    British forces capture Meiketila.

    May 2

    The Indian 26th Infantry Division captures Rangoon which had been evacuated by the Japanese.


    So ended th active war in Burma. Now, I realize I was wrong to say the Brits were simply sitting on their backsides in India for two and a half years, but I am correct in stating that British priorities were to defend India (and retain control versus the Indians) and that was it. The British Chiefs of Staff had no interest in fighting the Japanese in Burma and couldn't have cared less what the Chinese or Americans wanted in the CBI. A serious British offensive to retake Burma didn't get started until January, 1945.

    As for Slim, at the start of 1944, Slim held the official rank of colonel with a war-time rank of major-general and the temporary rank of lieutenant-general. (London Gazette, no.36331, page 319, 1944-01-14). If he became a Field Marshall, it must have been after the war. While he was probably an adequate general and all around nice guy, his early performance in Burma and subsequent track record in the CBI doesn't recommend hi as a great general. Stilwell's record in the CBI was spotty as well, particularly as a diplomat, But he met and overcame tremendous problems in the performance of his duties and his military achievements are outstanding. The fact that his subsequent career included several highly responsible commands, including US 6th. and 10th. Armies, Army Ground Forces and Western Defense Command speak well of his abilities.
     
  16. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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  17. Grounded

    Grounded Member

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    This is my first post, having had a browse of this topic I find myself agreeing with Mortman, Bill Slim was the best British general of WW2. I would also say Monty was the worst, if you want to know why just read your history, mind you he was aided and abetted by a lot of unimaginative twirp's
     
  18. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Grounded, just saying 'this was best and that was worst, go read yourself' is not enough here. Anyone can shoot his mouth off and scamper away leaving the others in the dust trail wondering. What facts and/or arguments do you have to offer to substantiate your opinion that Slim is the best and Montgomery the worst?

    And being 'aided and abetted' requires some skill, remember.
     
  19. TA152

    TA152 Ace

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    There he goes again, trying to intimidate a new person. :rolleyes:

    Grounded don't pay any attention to him, he is just constipated again. :eek:
     
    Za Rodinu likes this.
  20. Richard

    Richard Expert

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    Hitler, Goering and Himmler and thats a rap..............:p
     

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