Capital Berlin- The Rights!

Although,this topic is disturbing to me but i feel it's a good dicussion on ww2.
A Russian member Avator has help me think up this thread.

There were three major Allied countries that sufferd from the hands form the Hitler /germany- The French,The Russians,The British.

The French sufferd by being invaded for 4-5 years and being tourched by germans and the French had been fighting the germans for 6 years (french underground)

The Russians were invaded and torched and were in head to head hell battles with the germans.

The British were threatend by Invasion when Briton were standing all alone and suffered from the Lufftwaffe bombings for months.
Also The british have been against the germans since 1939 - 1945 (the only biggest allied country to stand agianst hitler for 6 years)

Do you feel that the French and British should have been with the Russians at the piont of the flag hanging in the Capital of Berlin???

America i could not include cause America was not ever threatend by hitler/germany on American soil.
I did not include poland cause she was not a major Allied country!

I could not include ireland and swiss and netherlands caus eall more helpind supply germany and were neutral in ww2.

Sorry if i offend any members for not including you're country,every allied country did well in ww2. I apolitgize to you.
If you feel you're country should be the with these top three Allied major countres that have any rights to berlin capital city,than just point out to me my mistake

 

Didn't Eisenhower let the Russians take Berlin ? So it's not about rights , the allies could probably have went to Berlin with thee Russians.

As far as post-war , the French , the Americans , the Russians. , and the British all got a part of Berlin so it was pretty fair.

 

You bring up a really interesting point Heidi. Although I have to agree with Cj I don't think it is so much about "right" more just deserving to be recongnized for their efforts. So while yes the Russians did take the City and the Eastern front might have been the more decisive, I think that yes it would have been nice for the British and French to be there but again the Russians were the ones who took the city. So I think it seems more like you are trying to make sure that Britain and France aren't forgotten for their efforts which I fear they are a lot of the time, especially in the US, where everyone thinks that big powerful America did everything and won the war.

 

Another thing to bear in mind here, the division of Berlin was decided upon long before the Red Army surrounded the city. The Soviets would only agree to the French having a "portion" if said portion was taken out of the British and American sectors. Ignoring the fact that when the French signed their armistice with the Nazis, Stalin was still supplying the Nazis with food, fabric, alloys, and oil.

 

Good point Clint. I think the partitioning of Berlin took the place of the flag raising. So in my opinion, it all worked out.

 

I suggest everyone reads this article, and especially these sections; "…those telegrams - especially the one to Stalin - had created the most serious split between the Americans and the British since the invasion had begun nine months earlier on D Day, 6 June 1944. For the fact was, in the days and weeks prior to 28 March, Eisenhower had changed his mind decisively on one vital matter relating to the course of the war: he no longer considered Berlin, capital of Hitler's Reich, to be a major military objective. (my emphasis) Unlike British generals, Eisenhower had not been trained to consider political objectives as part of military strategy. His main concern was to get the War over as quickly as possible and with as few casualties as circumstances would allow. (my emphasis) In international terms, Eisenhower was politically inexperienced. His mission, as spelled out by the Combined Chiefs of Staff, was enshrined in one sentence: "You will enter the continent of Europe and, in conjunction with the other United Nations, undertake operations aimed at the heart of Germany and the destruction of her armed forces." Even now, this late in the war, his objective was purely military - to destroy the enemy army as quickly as he could. In any case, it had already been agreed at higher levels that Berlin would fall under Soviet aegis."

And; "Instead, on 21 March, the headquarters staff of General Bradley's 12th Army Group released what turned out to be a decisive memorandum - "Re-orientation of Strategy" - which argued that Allied objectives had changed rendering "obsolete the plans which brought us over the beaches." The strategy document concluded that the significance of Berlin was now much diminished and that: "all indications suggest that the enemy's political and military directorate is already in the process of displacing to the Redoubt in lower Bavaria." (my emphasis)

..."General Bradley, whose general staff had written the famous memorandum on a change of strategy - in which the importance of Berlin was downgraded in favour of the Alpine Fortress - later had the grace to admit his error. "The Redoubt existed largely in the imagination of a few fanatical Nazis. It grew into so exaggerated a scheme that I am astonished we could have believed it as innocently as we did. But while it persisted, this legend . . . shaped our tactical thinking."

From:

WashingtonPost.com: The Death of Hitler: The Full Story with New Evidence from Secret Russian Archives

(me again)The suspicion of the redoubt in Bavaria turned out to be grossly over estimated, but still was NOT an option to have been ignored at the time.

 

I don't believe that churchill /england had any say in who's taking the Berlin capital!
America and her generals had more say than any one else,russia had some say in the berlin capital.
It was America that had the final say,but why? Why America always has the final say in every during ww2?(taliking about the Berlin capital )


I don't know how America became Apart of this topic,i never even included America in this thread lol.

 

go read : Roosevelt's Road to Russia by George N. Crocker

first printed in 1959 and then redone in 1986. a bit disturbing reading as what was promised between two Allied leaders while keeping Churchill out to lunch and in the dark..

 

That's my point exactly,CXhurchil had no say in berlin ,while America had all the say in who getsa to take berlin.
In fact america had all the say all during the war when America first enterd the war!

I understand you completly.

 

think you need to read the book Heidi, America did not get her way........... all the time, and the book shows this to be true in some of the case(s)